BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 14, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

I had the engine built & dyno tested in 2010. It's run "street hard" and has maybe 3,500-4,500 miles since the build. I'm running Crower 66201H-16 roller lifters and SS roller rockers. 248/255/10 .75 Howards CAM & aluminum Brodix Race Rites.

I was driving off an exit ramp the other day, and the engine didn't feel right - just a hair rough with slight increased idle speed. I limped home and hoped for a fuel problem. I decided to check the lash cold, and Intake #1 and Exh #6 were @ +.030. The others were +/- .002 of .019 - The spec is .022 hot.

I assume the lifters have to come out, and at least be rebuilt. Is it time to switch to a different lifter? Should the CAM be O.K.?



I will admit I haven't been on top of the lash adjustments as of late. The last adjustment was 1-2000 miles ago.

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 14, 03:46 PM
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

So your lash is now around 0.050"? I would pull the intake and check all the lifters, pushrods and rockers. I've had excellent luck with Crower solid roller lifters. Inspect all the components to determine which parts are wearing.

'69 Camaro - 429 SBC Dart Iron Eagle 9.325" block, Crower crank, Crower 6" billet rods, Ross pistons (10:1), Total Seal rings, AFR 245 heads, T&D steel body shaft rockers, Cloyes Timing set, custom ground 4-7 swap solid roller 274/286 @ .050" with .704" lift, Dart single plane, Holley Dominator EFI on E85, Injector Dynamics ID2000 Injectors, Stef's #1705R oil pan, F2 Procharger, Lemons 2" primary 4" collector, ATI 9" blower converter
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 14, 04:26 PM
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

Just because you have roller lifters doesn't mean you do not need ZDDP in your motor oil. GM is thinking about asking their API pet to put the zinc back into the motor oil again because factory cams and roller lifters are failing inside of the warranty claim period (most are on the extended warranty period they sell).





In addition to tappets and cams rings and bearings last longer as well as the bushings in the distributor that powers the oil pump.

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 14, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

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Originally Posted by Steve69SS396 View Post
So your lash is now around 0.050"? I would pull the intake and check all the lifters, pushrods and rockers. I've had excellent luck with Crower solid roller lifters. Inspect all the components to determine which parts are wearing.
When I said .030+ I just meant .030 was my largest feeler gauge, and it was more then that. To confuse things more, I wasn't that last one to adjust lash. It was done hot with plugs installed & bumped using EOIC method. Could rockers with poly locks move this much?

Would I be crazy to lash it to .012 cold and run it a few more weeks, without a teardown?

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 14, 08:48 PM
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

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When I said .030+ I just meant .030 was my largest feeler gauge, and it was more then that. To confuse things more, I wasn't that last one to adjust lash. It was done hot with plugs installed & bumped using EOIC method. Could rockers with poly locks move this much?

Would I be crazy to lash it to .012 cold and run it a few more weeks, without a teardown?
I would play it safe and pull the intake so you can pull the lifters and inspect the cam.

'69 Camaro - 429 SBC Dart Iron Eagle 9.325" block, Crower crank, Crower 6" billet rods, Ross pistons (10:1), Total Seal rings, AFR 245 heads, T&D steel body shaft rockers, Cloyes Timing set, custom ground 4-7 swap solid roller 274/286 @ .050" with .704" lift, Dart single plane, Holley Dominator EFI on E85, Injector Dynamics ID2000 Injectors, Stef's #1705R oil pan, F2 Procharger, Lemons 2" primary 4" collector, ATI 9" blower converter
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 14, 08:54 PM
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

My alluminum 074 heads grew .006 from cold to hot, I set them at at 12 cold to get 18 hot, I never set them hot again once I new the growth rate. The EOIC method is the only way to go with a remote start switch. I have had many issues with poly locks coming loose. The real key is to have perfectly flat stud ends to lock onto.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 14, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

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I would play it safe and pull the intake so you can pull the lifters and inspect the cam.
Probably good advice, and my gut instinct. I was planning to send the lifters out for inspection/rebuild this offseason anyways.

How do others feel about ZDDP being needed on a solid roller?

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 14, 08:26 AM
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

Agree with Steve on pulling the intake for inspection, pull the roller lifters and look at each one. Your cam is "Crower 66201H", What is the H for?
High pressure roller?

If you have any missing metal , its probably in the pan or filter. Time to pull the motor and get it all out.

I had a comp cam and roller do what Larger Dave mentioned.

I use Rotella oil even on a roller set up.

Also concerned about your spring pressures if this is a cast cam.

Would you have the cam design # ?

Don
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 14, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

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Agree with Steve on pulling the intake for inspection, pull the roller lifters and look at each one. Your cam is "Crower 66201H", What is the H for?
High pressure roller?

If you have any missing metal , its probably in the pan or filter. Time to pull the motor and get it all out.

I had a comp cam and roller do what Larger Dave mentioned.

I use Rotella oil even on a roller set up.

Also concerned about your spring pressures if this is a cast cam.

Would you have the cam design # ?
Cam is premium billet steel. It's a Howards 121153

121153-10 NA 281 287 249 255 .663 .680 110 106 .022 .022
3000-7000 Good mid-range horsepower, rough idle. Needs 11.0:1 CR-up.

I used Rotella for a few years, then switched to Royal Purple synthetic. My understanding is that Rotella doesn't have the ZDDP it used to "achieved despite a lower zinc and phosphorus additive level".

Here is hoping for no missing metal. Hoping to keep the lump in the car.

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 14, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

The lifters are Crower 66201H-16, with the H standing for "High Pressure Pin Oiling (HIPPO)" option.

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 14, 11:19 AM
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

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The lifters are Crower 66201H-16, with the H standing for "High Pressure Pin Oiling (HIPPO)" option.
I got you on the hippo lifters and billet cam. Hope all is good. As for the Rotella not having any anti wear properties, I always thought it did .

So you have a Pantera huh? I had to swap out trans axles on one back in the mid 70's at a ford dealership, no repair authorized under warranty, exchange cases only.

Don
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 14, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

Don, as for Rotella I would say it has more ZDDP then most, less then it used to.

I Actually sold the Pantera, but not before yanking the transaxle to replace the clutch. (not because it was worn, but because a few of the fiction packs separated from the steel). They are unique beasts.

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Last edited by 68427; Oct 5th, 14 at 11:55 AM.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 14, 07:17 AM
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68427 View Post
Cam is premium billet steel. It's a Howards 121153

121153-10 NA 281 287 249 255 .663 .680 110 106 .022 .022
3000-7000 Good mid-range horsepower, rough idle. Needs 11.0:1 CR-up.

I used Rotella for a few years, then switched to Royal Purple synthetic. My understanding is that Rotella doesn't have the ZDDP it used to "achieved despite a lower zinc and phosphorus additive level".

Here is hoping for no missing metal. Hoping to keep the lump in the car.
You many consider going hyd roller if you need to replace the camshaft if it is damaged. With the morel lifter you can spin these things up pretty high, mid 7000 rpm range.

On a side note, if this has the race rites on it you have quite a bit more power left in the engine over the cam profile you have now. Brodix heads like split. 14 to 16 degree split at .050" is about right for those heads. I have a 427 up in Canada that makes 639HP and 580#/ft with a mild solid and the exact same heads you have. We gained 40HP with going to a smaller cam with more split, old cam was 10 degrees, new cam was 15 degrees.

Chris

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 14, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

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You many consider going hyd roller if you need to replace the camshaft if it is damaged. With the morel lifter you can spin these things up pretty high, mid 7000 rpm range.

On a side note, if this has the race rites on it you have quite a bit more power left in the engine over the cam profile you have now. Brodix heads like split. 14 to 16 degree split at .050" is about right for those heads. I have a 427 up in Canada that makes 639HP and 580#/ft with a mild solid and the exact same heads you have. We gained 40HP with going to a smaller cam with more split, old cam was 10 degrees, new cam was 15 degrees.
I dyno'ed at 550HP @ 6200 and 521TQ 4800 on an inertia dyno. I'm sure the Weiand stealth is holding it back some (can't fit much under the hood), but I do think the Cam is leaving something on the table. I'm at 10:5:1.

I'm going to inspect the cam with a borascope tomorrow. If the Cam looks O.K., and I can adjust the lash on the two cylinders, I'm going to run it a few hundred miles and recheck. I would love to hear the cam you used on your build, in case I have to swap the cam. (or just decide to to grab so HP). I will admit the cam was not selected based on any characteristics specific to the rectangle port Race Rites.

Either way the plan is to pull the lifters over the winter & send them to Crower to convert to their Needleless Bearing Option.

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 14, 06:05 AM
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Re: BBC 427 Solid Roller issues - What next?

I am going to agree with Chris as to going to a smaller cam.

I also feel you need to pull that intake and visually inspect each lobe as well as roller lifter.

I had such an instance where the cam material began to flake off the lobe at the opening ramp. I found this during a tear down after 2500 miles after a build.
I did not see this lobe damage until I pulled each roller and rolled the motor over to inspect lobes.
Had I not done this visual inspection and caught early, all the trash would have gotten into the bearings .

Good luck with the boreascope. Just my 2

Don
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