Block Recommendations? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 14, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Block Recommendations?

I'm targeting January to start my 383 build, and have started my due diligence for my parts list. Starting with a bare block, I was looking at this pre-machined block from Chevy Performance:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-88962516

Or, I have a friend that has a 350 4 bolt main block that needs machining. Are there any advantages for one block over the other? Seems like pricing will be about the same between either direction, unless the pre-machined block would need additional attention.

I'm well aware of the crate options that are competitively priced, but I do place value in the learning process and look for this to be somewhat of a father/son project.

Thoughts?

67 Black RS Coupe, 383, M21 & 10 Bolt Posi. Edelbrock E-Tech 170 Heads, 2204 Roller Cam, Air Gap Intake.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 14, 07:41 PM
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Re: Block Recommendations?

If its a father son project I'd get the one to do the prepwork on and tear down myself. Lots for fun to be had with a dremel on an old block and heads! I would check to see if its a high nickel block though. Not sure if that really matters but my dad always told me to and so I did.

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 14, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Block Recommendations?

Thanks Rob. The block that my friend has is already a bare block, has been machined before in the past, but will need additional work, including clearancing. I will eventually pull the motor in my car when swap time comes, and we'll have some fun with that too.

67 Black RS Coupe, 383, M21 & 10 Bolt Posi. Edelbrock E-Tech 170 Heads, 2204 Roller Cam, Air Gap Intake.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 14, 08:11 PM
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Re: Block Recommendations?

Machining? I guess you mean checked for deck parallel with crank center line, line bore checked , etc?

Depending on what rods you intend to use , like cap screw type, after market, etc, you still may have to check final side rail clearances and don't forget about decking the block to make sure you get proper quench on your piston to heads.

I personally like the older , more seasoned blocks with high nickel contents. What I used on my last build.

Then you might want to ask your self , why stop at 383? Why not a Little M block and go for longer strokes?

Don
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 14, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Block Recommendations?

Thanks Don. Yes, by machining I meant all of the above. I was looking at forged rods and need to stick to my $5-$6K budget. That Little M block is almost 3 times as much as the Chevy 383 block. Need to save some dollars for the rear end.

67 Black RS Coupe, 383, M21 & 10 Bolt Posi. Edelbrock E-Tech 170 Heads, 2204 Roller Cam, Air Gap Intake.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 14, 05:08 AM
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Re: Block Recommendations?

You could check a Dart SHP block. Nice piece.

67 R/S Blue 406 518HP and 504TQ Dart block,Callies crank,Mahle pistons,Ultradyne cam 230/238 duration @.050 530 lift at 113 lsa, Afr 195 heads,Holley 4150HP carb and RPM Air gap. TKO600 with 373 gears
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 14, 06:41 AM
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Re: Block Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cv2065 View Post
Thanks Don. Yes, by machining I meant all of the above. I was looking at forged rods and need to stick to my $5-$6K budget. That Little M block is almost 3 times as much as the Chevy 383 block. Need to save some dollars for the rear end.
I just did a build on a 406--parts detail below. You will need to add the cost of heads, block and a crank (I already had those), but should still come in better than your $5K cost...My machinework was done at a local machine shop, and I assembled myself in the shop (with the oversight of the machinist, since it was my first build...

Couple of notes--you will save some $$$ on the machine work if you are buying new heads that are ready to run--just make sure the springs are matched to your cam. You will also save some cash on the cam kit, since you will not need new valve springs.

406 build Machine work:
Block:
cook and Magnaflux $60.00
Block: Bore and hone $110.00
bearings/freezeplugs $93.03
Heads:
Disassemble and clean $40.00
Heads: valve job $85.00
Heads: setup spring pressure and assemble $50.00
Balance assembly $125.00
Resurface flywheel $25.00
Comp Cams 7609 pushrods $90.42
Machine work total $678.45

Parts:
Cam Kit: K12-432-8 $983.27
cam kit discount ($49.16)
Roller rockers--CCA-17004-16 $165.95
Rods--Scat--SCA-25700 $283.97
Pistons--SLP-H615CP30 $168.39
Harmonic balancer PFS-80001 $60.00
water pump-SUM-311006 $67.95
Timing tab SPE-4237 $4.95
Head bolts NAL-12495499 $33.97
oil pan bolts SUM-G1570HS $4.95
Timing cover bolts SUM-G1574HS $2.95
Head gaskets-FEL-1014 $77.50
oil pump MEL-M155 $31.95
oil pump screen assembly MEL-55-S1 $7.95
oil pump pushrod MOR-22070 $14.95
Parts total: $1,859.54
Grand Total: $2,537.99

Keith
1967 Camaro
406, 10:1, comp xr282HR, Dart Iron Eagle 200cc, Holley Contender dual plane, Holley 750 DP
Muncie M-20
GM 8.5, 3.73 posi
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 14, 07:39 AM
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Re: Block Recommendations?

If you want to use a hyd roller camshaft the GM block linked is nice. Not saying it's the best deal or will ultimately cost less money, but a retrofit roller cam/lifters is more expensive than the factory roller block set up.

- If you use a standard 3.75" stroke crank, you'll get 377 ci with a 4" bore. Not a big deal, just letting you know. A 3.80'' stroke will get you to 383, but piston choices are limited.

- Consider having your machinist assemble the short block. 383s are prone to having cam lobe/connecting rod interference. Also consider using a reduced base circle camshaft to lessen the possibility.

- I have never heard of a SBC connecting rod that wasn't forged - some are better than others though.

- The one piece rear main seal is nice - far less prone to leaking compared to the old 2 piece deign. A couple of downsides though are that a specific flywheel/flexplate is required, and if it does leak the transmission needs to be removed to gain access for repair.


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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 14, 07:48 AM
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Re: Block Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPOS View Post

- If you use a standard 3.75" stroke crank, you'll get 377 ci with a 4" bore. Not a big deal, just letting you know. A 3.80'' stroke will get you to 383, but piston choices are limited.
True--But I think most folks with a 383 stick with the 3.75 stroke, and do an overbore of .030 to get you to the 383...

This also is less limiting of the piston choices...

Check craigslist, local ads for a 350 4 bolt main block--you can usually get a block pretty cheap...if you can find an original complete motor, even better...then you know what you have as you disassemble it, and can clean and re-use the tin parts--pan, timing cover, etc...

Keith
1967 Camaro
406, 10:1, comp xr282HR, Dart Iron Eagle 200cc, Holley Contender dual plane, Holley 750 DP
Muncie M-20
GM 8.5, 3.73 posi
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 14, 02:41 PM
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Re: Block Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike's blue67 View Post
You could check a Dart SHP block. Nice piece.
Agree with Mike above. For another $535, you could go for the SHP block and could build a SB 427 (4" stroke, 4.125" bore),..or a 400 (3.75" stroke). There's no easier path to HP than cubic inches if you're in the design phase of the build.

Here's the SHP block from Dart for $1529 (vs. $995 for the 350 block)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380760086364...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

...no brainer IMO.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 14, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Block Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithl1967 View Post
I just did a build on a 406--parts detail below. You will need to add the cost of heads, block and a crank (I already had those), but should still come in better than your $5K cost...My machinework was done at a local machine shop, and I assembled myself in the shop (with the oversight of the machinist, since it was my first build...
Thanks for the parts list Keith. The machine work costs help. What crank and heads did you use for this build?

67 Black RS Coupe, 383, M21 & 10 Bolt Posi. Edelbrock E-Tech 170 Heads, 2204 Roller Cam, Air Gap Intake.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 14, 04:20 PM
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Re: Block Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cv2065 View Post
Thanks for the parts list Keith. The machine work costs help. What crank and heads did you use for this build?

I had a set of DART Iron Eagle 200CC that were on my 383 that I freshened up and re-used on the 406. I used a stock GM 400 crank for the build...

Your parts will obviously be a bit different, but I figured this should give you a good ballpark of what to expect.

MOST of the parts were sourced from Summitracing.com

Not a bad build cost, if it is even close to what the Desktop Dyno says: 461HP peak, and 513ft/lbs peak

Keith
1967 Camaro
406, 10:1, comp xr282HR, Dart Iron Eagle 200cc, Holley Contender dual plane, Holley 750 DP
Muncie M-20
GM 8.5, 3.73 posi
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 14, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Block Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPOS View Post
If you use a standard 3.75" stroke crank, you'll get 377 ci with a 4" bore. Not a big deal, just letting you know. A 3.80'' stroke will get you to 383, but piston choices are limited.

- Consider having your machinist assemble the short block. 383s are prone to having cam lobe/connecting rod interference. Also consider using a reduced base circle camshaft to lessen the possibility.
Thanks for pointing this out Al. I'm leaning towards just using my friend's 350 block, as it looks like I'd have to have this block bored to 0.30 over anyway. I think his has already been bored and honed. I will still have to have it looked over, but he'll part with it for $350. Not sure of the casting, but it came from an 80's van of some kind.

Wasn't aware of the cam lobe/connecting rod interference either. I'm assuming that if the connecting rod shoulders need to be shaved a bit, the machine shop would have to assemble the short block in order to do so correct? If that's the case, then would it pay to buy a pre-assembled short block to begin with?

67 Black RS Coupe, 383, M21 & 10 Bolt Posi. Edelbrock E-Tech 170 Heads, 2204 Roller Cam, Air Gap Intake.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 14, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Block Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight-line-69 View Post
Agree with Mike above. For another $535, you could go for the SHP block and could build a SB 427 (4" stroke, 4.125" bore),..or a 400 (3.75" stroke). There's no easier path to HP than cubic inches if you're in the design phase of the build.

Here's the SHP block from Dart for $1529 (vs. $995 for the 350 block)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380760086364...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

...no brainer IMO.
I don't disagree with you and Mike, but it's easy to $500 oneself to death on these types of things, and get off track to the original budget. I'm quite familiar with the domino effect. .

67 Black RS Coupe, 383, M21 & 10 Bolt Posi. Edelbrock E-Tech 170 Heads, 2204 Roller Cam, Air Gap Intake.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 14, 05:34 PM
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Re: Block Recommendations?

I would take Al's advice and get an '87 or newer block with the factory roller setup.

A roller cam is a necessity nowadays.

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