Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures inside) - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 14, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures inside)

Hello!
I wanted your opinion on the look of my cam bearing, does the discoloring means the bearing is bad?

Also, the camshaft seems worn only on the half of the lobes, I guess this is normal because of the small taper made for the lifters to rotate on themselves, but this seems like a pretty good difference.

let me know what you think ?

Here are the pictures:

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/guhs0cik3...yYVOxGKLq-RJAa

thanks a lot!

g.b.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 14, 03:01 PM
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

No Pro...but looks pretty normal to me unless I'm missing something.

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 14, 06:18 PM
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

They are supposed to rotate. But I assume you tore the motor down for a reason beyond normal maintenance What do the bottom of the lifters look like?

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 14, 08:01 PM
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

The wear pattern on that cam is all wrong. First who,se cam is it and what are the specs ? What brand of lifters did you use ? what breakin oil did you use ? how did you adjust your valves .You can respond here or PM me with details of your procedure. Alex
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 14, 09:58 PM
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

looks like it could be a loose lifter bore or lifters adjusted to tight. might have also been a low oil pressure situation
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 14, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

Hello!
I know I posted 2 questions buy I was mostly interested about the camshaft bearing condition.
I tore the engine apart because I need to change my camshaft. It went bad on a freshly rebuilt engine which I installed in my car but I wasn't aware that there was a proper ''break-in'' procedure... Yeah, I learnt it the hard way. The engine has ran for a total of about 4-5 hours in it's life... Shi* happens...

The cam is a CompCams XE256H (link here) http://www.compperformancegroupstore...Category_Code=

I also took pictures of the lifters, some are good (those matches the few lobes which still have their original lift)
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/ov9hfatq4...du7L-D-ZNEPk_a

The engine has been rebuilt by a professional shop which I trust and that rebuilds a lot of those engines. I don't know about the brand of the lifters (probably comp cams, like the camshaft) Neither do I know about the adjustment of the valves, this was done by the shop too.
I remember that the shop did put an additive in the oil for the camshaft break-in, however, I don't know about the brand.

I am about to order a new camshaft and lifters and I would like your opinion especially about the camshaft bearings because I may change them too if you think the bearing looks bad.

I think I will stick with comp cams, same model. It seems to fit my engine and setup pretty well.

I can't really believe that a break-in procedure and oil can do such a difference on the camshaft condition but that must be what killed my camshaft.

thanks a lot guys for your time and opinions!

g.b.
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 14, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

Also, would a loose lifter bore be noticeable by hand or it must be measured with specialized tools?

About the oil pressure, the gauge in my car seems to show me that I have plenty of it. I checked some time ago and I was right within specs.

thanks a lot!

g.b.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 14, 05:46 PM
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

Tough to tell from the pictures, but I am not really liking what I see with the cam bearings.

Has the shop that rebuilt the engine seen this up close and in person? If so, what did they say?

68 Camaro SS 396 - 468 BBC now, M21, 12 bolt 3.73 coded housing but w/ 3.31 gears.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 14, 05:47 PM
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

What valve springs were used?

68 Camaro SS 396 - 468 BBC now, M21, 12 bolt 3.73 coded housing but w/ 3.31 gears.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 14, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

The shop is unfortunately closed now, couple years ago. That is why I couldn't contact them for engine setup when I was ready to setup the engine.

For the valve springs, again, I don't know. They were installed by the shop when the engine has been rebuilt. They are supposed to be new, and, I hope, are the comp cams compatible springs...

I would like to have a second tought about the bearings

thanks again
g.b.
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 14, 07:37 PM
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

The cam bearings are toast. Do not re-use those.

I'm an ex GM mechanic and now a Mechnical Engineer. You had a problem with the film strength of the oil being less than the load placed on the lifter and the cam lobe. It's pretty easy to see from the cam lobes. This is measured in psi. Most likely, the additive (probably advertised as zinc for cam break in) compromised the additive package and therefore the film strength of the base oil. Many many shops and hobbiest's do not understand this, and when I was a Tech I had no understanding of this either. Oil manufacturers go to great lengths to get the additive packages and base oils to work together to give you the greatest film strength possible. Adding any "additives" weakens the film strength and runs a greater risk of the damage you see. Sometimes people get away with the additives because of safety factor. Say you have and engine that requires 40,000 psi of film strength and the oil being used has a rating of 60,000 psi. Then an additive is used and the film strength is reduced to 50,000 psi. The user never knows the difference because the oil still has more film strength than what is required. I believe if you do a search that this topic has been discussed on here before.

The only reason I am sharing this is to help you understand the importance of oil choice for engine break in. I highly recommend that you use a break in oil that was formulated as such...many camshaft manufacturers offer it and I think Joe Gibbs makes some as well. Clean out the block really well and perform your rebuild. Once you're done use a good break in oil and you should have no further issues.

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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 14, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

heyy!

Thanks a lot for the information! I am aware of film strength as I read a lot lately on the topic of oil and read some great write-up on oil film strength.

I will be installing a comp cams camshaft and also will be using comp cams break-in oil they sell. Not their additive.

I find it pretty Odd that the engine builder would put a oil that doesn't meet the required oil film strength, they build v8 like this each weeks for years and are very reputable.

I will be checking oil pressure to be 100% sure too, maybe I have a problem with my pump not feeding the required PSI.

Is it a possibility for the oil to have lost it's properties over time? This oil has been inside the engine for a pretty long time, let's say about 5 years.

My next concern now, if the film strength wasn't good enough, is the rest of the engine. I should worry about the crankshaft bearings, the crankshaft itself, the pistons, rings, cylinders, etc etc etc?

I'm a little upset because we paid about 3000$ for the engine to get rebuilt, just to have the peace of mind about the engine condition... it seems like I am having every possible problem with it...

thanks for all inputs!

g.b.
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 14, 08:34 PM
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

Timeline of this seems a bit off.

You had this engine custom built 5 years ago and now just got around to starting it up and breaking it in?

Did the shop give you any paperwork or parts list when you paid for it? It might help.

68 Camaro SS 396 - 468 BBC now, M21, 12 bolt 3.73 coded housing but w/ 3.31 gears.
Looking for 68 Camaro with body number NOR 181016
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 14, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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Exactly... 5-6 years ago I got the engine rebuilt but only started it a for 5-10 minutes each month or so... With nothing really adjusted or tuned... Thinking that it was good for the engine to idle once in a while.

The only paperwork I got from the shop was the total receipt with a cam spec sheet stapled to it... So I'm clueless about the internals... Damn..
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 14, 10:02 PM
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Re: Marks on camshaft and cam bearings, are they normal? (Pictures ins

You can change the bearings no problem and when you do use Durabond H series they are the hp ones but you will have to take the crank and pistons out as the bearings have different positions. As far as the oil goes there are two schools of thought on this with favorable results either way. I am not going to get into that debacle .Do a search on here and the Chevelle site on the subject and you head will spin with all the info . there is a breakin procedure that must be followed to a tee and you need oils that contain zddp for proper life on a flat tappet cam . there are those that will tell you to go roller I won't go for that and I wont use your brand of cam because of such problems they are noted for it. Get yourself up to par with oils and breakin procedure before you fire up your repaired engine .Do a search on team Camaro and Chevelle on xe series cams then you be the judge . Good luck keep us posted. Alex
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