Tips on 327 Changing Oil Pan Gasket - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 04, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Tom
 
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I just finished changing my ignition to EI and am now ready to start tackling leaks so I can park my car in my driveway.

First leak to go is the Oil Pan Leak. It has been so bad for so long I really cannot tell where it is coming from. The entire pan is crusted and caked with black tar and was a bear to get separated from the block.

I cannot remove it fully because the frame cross member and starter sprocket are in the way but I can drop it about 4".

I have read several topics on frustrating oil leaks so I thought I'd ask questions based on a non-pulled engine gasket change.

1.) Is this doable?
2.) What gasket should be used for best results?
3.) I heard a guy say that he used 3M spray glue to prestick the gasket. Sounds good but is it?
4.) Please provide any tips that you can think of.

Thank you in advance...

Now, to go and clean the oil cake out of my eye.

Thanks

Tom
San Diego, CA
67 Camaro RS Clone
Blue w/white Z28 stripes

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 04, 02:18 PM
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take out the engine mount bolts, take off the distributor cap and rotor (and maybe even take out the distributor), and jack the engine up as high as it will go with a floor jack and a block of wood on the sump of the pan. jam a small chunk of 2X4 in each motor mount and let the engine set on that. the oil pan will practically fall out.
as for what gasket to use, i've heard (well, read, actually) good things about the Fel Pro one piece silicone gaskets. they get installed dry, and should come with some handy plastic guide studs you put in the 4 corners of the block to hold them in place while you stick the pan back up there.

you don't plan sincerity.
you have to make it up on the spot.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 04, 02:33 PM
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Skip, I used the felpro cork set, Ran a thin bead of blue silicone over the pan railing and on one side of the gasket, being sure to encircle each bolt hole. Nothing thick that will ooz all over the place, but enough to cause a good seal. In the corners put a dab that will squish up to the rubber seal on the timing cover and rear main area. Start your bolts and run em finger tight initially. Then catch the 4 corners then every other one. then all to #5. Just make sure all mating surfaces are clean of oil first. Should seal like a frogs butt when done.

Brandon J. licence 1NASTY67

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 04, 03:56 PM
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Al
 
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Do as Derrick said, and also put the timing mark at about the 5 O'Clock position - this gets the crank counterweights out of the way and makes pan removal easier.

I'd recommend a Fel Pro one piece gasket as well. A dab of silicone above and below the gasket in each corner is a good idear. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Not a bad idea to loosen the fan shroud as well.


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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 04, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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The sump of the pan can hadle that type of pressure? The distributor part kinda sux since I just got that damn thing in there right. Oh well, I am good at that now .

Thanks for the tip on the Fel Pro Gasket. I will get one of those as soon as I can figure out what the pro's and cons are between cork and silicon gaskets. Any links on that toppic or further details on your suggestions in that area?

Do I just got to the auto shop and ask for Blue Silicon to be used on gaskets? I'm picturing about a 2-3 MM bead on the the tray and gasket so as to not squish it out everyplace.

One last thought/question. Since I have to jack the engine up. Any other things that I should do while I have it up or the pan removed? I am going to try to clean the pan and surrounding areas up and paint the pan it's original Chevy Orange.

When I'm done with the Oil Pan, the Tranny pan seal will be next.

Oh yeah, thanks BPOS for the tip regarding the 5 O'Clock positioning of the timming mark.

Thanks

Tom
San Diego, CA
67 Camaro RS Clone
Blue w/white Z28 stripes

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 04, 05:30 PM
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Skip, Ask for Permatex Blue RTV Silicone at the store. A strip about the size of a pencil lead should be sufficient for the job. The roll of the silicone is to help the seal form, not to be the only seal.
Everyone may have their own preferrence of gasket material, be it the silicone or or cork. Just be sure not to over torque the bolts, 1/4's break easy and it wont take much to distort the gasket.

The other thing you could do is paint the timing cover an nice new orange and clean up the subframe around the mounts. Touch of black on them always makes the engine bay and motor look good. You can get an idea by looking at the website in my signature.

Brandon J. licence 1NASTY67

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 04, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Nantooch,

Whoa, nice ride. She looks sooooo clean. I'm hoping to get mine looking that nice some day before I die. Mine is not an SS or RS but I'd like to make it an RS/SS clone if I can.

How many turns past snug would be the rule for pan bolts while alternating bolts on the snuggin' process?

Thanks

Tom
San Diego, CA
67 Camaro RS Clone
Blue w/white Z28 stripes

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 04, 07:15 PM
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Thanks for the compliments, I like the awwh factor when I look in the engine bay. May not be the biggest baddest car on the block, well is on mine anyway, but I like having a clean motor. Clean runs cooler and lets you know when problems arise.

I think you'll have to go around the pan at least twice, once all have some tension put on them. Just watch that the gasket doesnt start squishing out. If it does, back off a hair and move to the next bolt. It takes time and is a bit frustrating to get done. Especially since the corner bolts are bigger.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 04, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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You bring up a good point and it is worth the extra effort since I don't want to do this again for awhile.

Why did Chevy seem to think that two bigger bolts on the front of the pan was wise? Is there more oil pressure on the front?

Oh well. I'll get back to you all and let you know how it turned out. Since I have to work extra hours over the next 3 weeks my time will be limted so this may take a bit.

Thanks

Tom
San Diego, CA
67 Camaro RS Clone
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 04, 02:40 AM
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I would look at a few other things before ripping into the wonderful gonna change the oil pan gasket experience. CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN AND CLEAN SOME MORE. Thoroughly clean your engine top bottom all around (firewall and fenders). When you think you are done ... clean some more. Take a wire brush to spots that won't clean with water and degreaser. Find exactly where your leaks are before you start ripping things apart. If your rear seal is leaking time to replace it. You might be surprised how much oil can leak down the engine from the tappet covers as well. Just my 2 cents. The oil pan gasket isn't a fun job. (btw when you get the pan off ... refer to the second sentence of this post (clean)

1969 Z/28 CLONE 350
4 SPD MUNCIE,
4 WHEEL DISK BRAKES,
4:11 POSI
BLUE W/WHITE STRIPES


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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 04, 06:21 AM
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Be sure to know the year of your oil pan. There is a difference at the front seal. This is particularly important with the $25 one piece silicone gasket. Nice gasket especialy if you are replacing it upside-down from under the car.

I use the old 4-piece style if the engine is on a stand in the garage. [img]smile.gif[/img] I usualy have bought an engine gasket set that includes both front seals and the cork rails. They are basicaly "free" that way and they seal well most of the time so I run them. I just can't see just tossing them in the trash and spending an additional $25 for another gasket personaly. A single gasket purchase and I might consider the fancy one.

Orange RTV makes for a good sealer as it matches the engine paint(which does not stick to the sealer BTW). [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

-Mark.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 04, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Stinger,

Are you saying that your 4 part pan gasket comes with two side pan seal's, 1 for the front of the pan and 1 for the back of the pan? Or, are you saying that your kit came with 2 pan gasket and two additional gaskets for other areas of the motor?

If yes on the second option, what were specifically for and were the difficult to change?

GreyS,
I already have the starter off and the pan separated from the block. I just now have to jack the motor up and clean and replace. Do you have any pix of your car? I'm looking to transpose my paint to w/stripes on blue instead of b/stripes on white. You are right though, I'm going to clean the dickens out of this block before I get it all put back together so I can detect any other leaks much easier.

Thanks

Tom
San Diego, CA
67 Camaro RS Clone
Blue w/white Z28 stripes

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 04, 02:51 PM
 
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Thanks BPOS b/c I was trying to remember where to put the balancer to get the counterweights out of the way.. Saved it this time...

And yes, the pans have two different thickness rubbers!! AND again, I can never remember which fits up to what year motors???

pdq67



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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 04, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by maddogskip:
Stinger,

Are you saying that your 4 part pan gasket comes with two side pan seal's, 1 for the front of the pan and 1 for the back of the pan?
The full engine set contains the 2 cork side rail pieces plus the rear rubber "smile" seal, plus 2 front rubber "smiles". The 74 and older pans will require the thinner "smile" while the 75 and up oil pans use a thicker "smile" seal. The full engine kit comes with both early and late style seals.

The sticky part comes in to play if you have a replacement GM oil pan. GM converted over all the oil pans to the 75 and up seal design regardless of original application. If you have the original pan it will be the 74 on down seal design. You need to know what you have either way if you are buying a pan gasket.

Measure from the top of the pan sealing surface down to the bottom of the radius where the seal rides on. If it is 2.25" then it is the '74 on down size. If it measures 2.375" then it is the '75 and up size gasket.

-Mark.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 8th, 04, 03:58 AM
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"GreyS,
I already have the starter off and the pan separated from the block. I just now have to jack the motor up and clean and replace. Do you have any pix of your car? I'm looking to transpose my paint to w/stripes on blue instead of b/stripes on white. You are right though, I'm going to clean the dickens out of this block before I get it all put back together so I can detect any other leaks much easier"

Yeah i got that you had already ripped it apart after i sent it i guess i should read better lol. I have many pictures but none of them online send me an email and i can send you some photos when I get home. Good luck with the leak those damn pan gaskets are tough to get to keep leak free.

1969 Z/28 CLONE 350
4 SPD MUNCIE,
4 WHEEL DISK BRAKES,
4:11 POSI
BLUE W/WHITE STRIPES


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