what components make a 496? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 03, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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I'm interested in building a 496 for my 69 and would like to know what the exact specs for the bottom end components are. It is my understanding that it is a .060 454 block with a 4.25" stroke crank. I've been told that it uses a 6.385" rod as well. I'm not sure what pistons it uses though. Do you use 454 pistons?

This car is going to be primarily a street car but only a weekend driver. I want to get the best performance possible but, i've got power brakes and hideaway headlights so decent vac. is an issue. Anyone have a good suggestion on a camshaft that will give me the best of both worlds(turn it on power but not so much duration that my headlamps and brakes won't work). The tranny is a M-21 with a 3.73 posi differential so stall converter speed is not an issue. I've already got a ready to go .060 454 block so thats why I was interested in the 496 build. I'm just looking for some more experienced input from you guys!! Thanks in advance for any info and help!
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 03, 04:46 PM
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Bill
 
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Dan,
You have to get pistons that have the correct pin location for the stroke and rod length that you are going to use.

Bill Koustenis
Owner
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
1971 Chevelle "Heavy Chevy" original owner


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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 03, 09:30 PM
SY1
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Dave
 
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Dan here's a good link for your setup http://www.ohiocrank.com/

You can buy the crank kit for around 1299 to 1899 depending what quality internals you are looking for.

Dave
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 03, 02:24 AM
 
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If your block has already been bored 60 over, be careful when buying pistons and rings. The bore really should be fitted to the pistons and rings, not the other way around. You might also want to check the bore size all the way to the bottom of each cylinder, just to be safe.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 03, 08:01 AM
 
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I've told this several times before so will go through it again to help keep you from making the same mistake I did.

I bought Lunati's, (probably last), 4.25" welded crank AND totally missed the part where the guy said, "oh, by the way, you need to run 1/4" longer rods with our crank so hopefully you won't need any Heavi-metal to balance it"!!

Anyway, I bought a set of 9.5 to 1CR. ROSS 496 stroker pistons that fit the good stock truck rods I am using thinking that everything was cool until I bolted the sucker together AND it locked up at BDC b/c the pin boss was jambing against the crank counterweights!!

I had FLAT forgotten about the extra 1/8" needed at BDC but thought the stroker piston took care of it b/c it didn't stick out the top the other 1/8"...

What really pissed me off was that a local Machine Shop that I got to balance the rotating assembly DIDN'T tell me it locked up AND I WILL bet you a dollar to a donut hole the father of the shop knew it BEFORE they balanced it!!

I put it together it locked up, I took it back and the SON said, no problem, I will get DAD to cam-cut the cranks counterweights after I called Lunati AND asked them what to do!!

Needless to say, my stuff sat for three weeks before I went to the shop and asked why they weren't fixing my problem? The SON said, that DAD didn't want to do it and he didn't call me like they didn't the first goaround!! AND I NEVER got upset at all and was very willing to pay my money until I found out they backed out AND didn't tell up front!!

The SON overloaded DADDY'S dear old As- and DADDY backed out!!

I gathered up my stuff, called Lunati and made an appointment to get the crank fixed along with the needed previously balanced "Bob-weight". Next took a days vacation and drove down to Memphis, dropped the stuff off and drove back while coming from B'ham, AL where I visited my buddy and picked it all up and was done with my MISTAKE!!!

And the cost of all this at that time was not quite what a set of hi-po, 1/4" longer rods would have cost b/c this was before everybody AND their brother started making/selling longer cheap BB rods!!

Everything worked out fine but I learned a good lesson!! And the cost wasn't all that outta line but now I know I can build another 496 or bigger cheaper then the $3800 to $4000 I have in mine, including new cast-iron, Merlin ovals!!

Please read this carefully AND let it soak in what I went through to save you the same hassle..

As always, just pdq67



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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 4th, 03, 03:02 AM
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Bill
 
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pdq,
Your machine shop would have no way of knowing that the crank hit the pistons if all they did was balance the assembly. The only way to find that out is to assemble the short block. By the way, every aftermarket stroker crank I have seen comes with a BIG warning to assemble the rotating assembly BEFORE balancing...exactly for this reason.
As far as them not calling you after promising to fix it, thats another story

Bill Koustenis
Owner
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
1971 Chevelle "Heavy Chevy" original owner


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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 4th, 03, 08:22 AM
 
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Unhappy

Bill,

You are right EXCEPT somebody at the Shop mocked up a piston/rod/bearing on the crank, (less block), and hand checked it b/c one of the rod bearings was installed and I could see that b/c of the marks that were on it!!

Plus, one of the piston pin bosses was marked were it hit the counterweight!!

Heck, I even mocked it up myself this way on the #1 and #8 journals to double check after pulling everything completely apart!!

B/c I had a real problem swallowing MY MISTAKE!!pdq67



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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 4th, 03, 06:11 PM
 
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Dan, I did a complete Callies rotating assembly in my 496. The parts are good american made stuff. 4340 forged crank, 4340 I beam rods, SRP pistons, JE rings, and good Federal Mogul bearings in a balanced assembly for around $2100 through my machinist. The rod length depends on pin placement in the piston, but I did do 6.385". I couldn`t make a recommendation on a camshaft without more information: heads, convertor, gearing, etc., but you should have no problem making a ton of torque and hp. and still have enough vacuum with the 496. Brent
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 4th, 03, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the info. Pdq67, I sympathize and know what you went through. I've had similar F...jobs performed on me as well. Some my own fault, some others but the end result is the same.

I talked with a guy named Keith at a place called Dyno-Flo in Nevada. I saw that they had rods and cranks on ebay and contacted them direct. He said he could sell me a rotating assymbly that consisted of a 4340 forged crank, 4340 H beam rods, JE pistons, file fit rings and bearings for $1699.00 and guaranteed the components to handle up to 1000 hp. If I'm not mistaken the crank and rods were Eagles. I'm sure the whole assymbly wasn't balanced and ready to go but I forgot to ask when he quoted the price. He quoted me around $700 for cast crank I beam rods, pistons, rings and bearings and guaranteed them to handle up to 600hp.

PDQ, are the Merlins worth the money and will they perform well right out of the box, or will I have to sink another chunk to get them ported? I've got a set of factory oval port open chamber heads fitted with 2.19/1.88 valves that have been ported already. They haven't had any extravegant work done to them but have a good pocket port and bowl blending done to them. Will the extra $1300 be worth it to just bolt them up and run em?
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 03, 08:14 AM
 
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Smile

My motor isn't in my car so haven't fired her up.

I suspect your reworked big valved oval ports should do nicely as long as you are up around 9.5 to 1 CR.-wise. Imho... pdq67

PS., I went with the Merlins b/c I was afraid of getting hosed locally reworking my good -781's b/c at a couple of the shops I asked, the first thing out of their mouths was, "it takes alotta time and money".....Now don't get me wrong b/c I'm all for Shops making money, BUT not me getting hosed!!



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