cylinder heads - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 01, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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John
 
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Goodness, I am goin' nuts with posts today. I am looking to either buy a crate engine, or build up my own small block. I was wondering what people think about some cylinder heads. Has anyone used AFR heads, Edelbrock RPM heads, Trick Flow G2 heads? Any others? If I could afford them, I would probably get the AFR heads at this point.
Also, does anyone have any info on the new Edelbrock "E-TEC" heads? According to Edelbrock they flow substantially better than the "fast burn" heads from the General. Anyone got any ideas?
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 01, 12:25 PM
 
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All the heads you have mentioned are great. But overall, I have heard better stuff about the AFR's. The new Edelbrock heads, they are too new to know yet.

Good luck!

------------------
383 Speed-O-Motive stroker kit with Speed Demon 750, RPM intake,Proform HEI dist.MSD6a box,World Products Sportsman II heads, ported and polished with 2.02/1.60 valves,64cc,TRW forged pistons with 10.7:1 compression, Comp Xtreme 284 cam,Crane pushrods, Comp Cam 1.6 full roller rockers,ATI damper, 40 series Flowmasters, 4.11 gears with TH350 and 3000 stall.Powertrax NoSlip Locker
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 01, 03:14 PM
 
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I've done a lot of engine bulding and the general response (in the industry) is the AFR's are a pain in the butt. Personally I have had too many problems with casting shift and valvetrain geometry problems.

If you have seen the latest mags....I think Carcraft made 411hp/ 430ftlbs on 87 pump gas with an hmv 278 cam(?)...and this with TF G-2's.......They are a great head if you dont plan on modifying it too much later. Most of the new stuff doesnt respond too well to extra porting...they are casted just for the purpose of an 'out of the box head', that takes care of business.

Your biggest question should be intake runner volume. Too big and its soggy...too small and you loose total potential.

To me cost is irrevelant, my small block 355 makes 630 hp on 92 pump with cast iron $549.00 heads. Anything alloy to match the product would be around $1000.00....to me thats $450.00 towards a roller cam or a better carb, or.....

Ask many questions, before you make your decision......the old school tought me to do my homework first and take all the answers to form my own opinion on what I really need, not what everyone else thinks I need. Saved time and headache is saved money.

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 17th, 01, 08:01 AM
 
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I personally know about ten people running the AFR's including myself and have never heard a bad thing about them. Most of them are on race motors but a few are street cars and everyone that has them highly recomends them. I have them on a pump bas 383 in a 66 nova and the car runs very consistent 10.6's @ 126 with street tires and mufflers. I know several other drag cars running in the 9's with AFR'S. I have the 210's but if you have more of a street car the 190's would be better suited.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 17th, 01, 10:31 AM
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If this is a street car only without a lot of cam and 4.11s or something be real carefull about intake port volume. Too much can really make a car miserable to drive. You may laugh but I have had really had good luck with the old Trick Flow canted value heads they are a nitemare to set up but they make a very wide power band and are really an excellent street head.They have about 170cc intake volumn but flow very well because of the canted valves. the ex flows as good a race head because of the canted valve and raised port.

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 17th, 01, 06:34 PM
 
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Oger,
What is sooo hard to set up about the old twisted valve trick flow heads??

Didn't they kinda fall by the wayside because of guide wear??? pdq67



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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 17th, 01, 06:44 PM
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The problem is getting the valve train geometry correct. This is probably where the valve guide wear came from if the rocker doesn't hit the valve correctly it will cause side loads on the guides that will kill them. I have a set on an early Nova street car and have had no problems.

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 18th, 01, 03:32 AM
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I've also been studying about what heads to get someday. CHP has done several articles on flow results. The AFR's look good but pricey. This is the first I've heard about problems. The Dart Iron Eagles, which I think is what Chacane67 uses, are about $850 from Summit. So are World Product Sportsman II's although the Dart's flow better on the exhaust side. For the same money, you can get Trick Flow aluminum. So, there are choices in the $850 range.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 18th, 01, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies. Yeah, the cost of the AFR heads is the big turn off. I have considered cast iron heads, (Vortec, Iron Eagles, Sportsman II) but I think I want to go with aluminum to try to drop a few pounds.
What do people think about the old Edelbrock RPM head? It has a 170cc runner and they say it has great velocity.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 18th, 01, 08:01 AM
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Chacane, that's alot of horespower on a pump gas 355. Do you have to spin it to high RPM's? Can you give alot more infor on specs. Is this the same engine that gets 26 mpg?
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 18th, 01, 10:03 AM
 
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I would like to know what the combo is for the motor chacane67 uses. I don't know about 600+ hp unless the motor is pretty unruly I build race engines for a living and I have a 408" big block and I am making about 550+ and I have a pretty beastly motor and I have got pieces to help make it more driveable (ie) roller cam with fast opening profile ETC. I am curious if the power figure he uses is dyno proven or not? chacane let me know ok?

------------------
67' Camaro 408"
BBC, 598 HP. th400 3500 stall

3.90 gears

best of 11.50 @ 118 MPH (Street Driven)
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 18th, 01, 08:09 PM
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Boodlefoof,

I run the Performer RPM heads. Check out my website under daily driver.

Lonnie

------------------
67 Camaro 410sb 11.63 @117.6
67 Camaro 388 12.10 @110.6
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 19th, 01, 03:06 AM
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Ok here goes, the RPM heads are $940 and probly not ported. Now AFR's are $1250. Now which would you choose? Seems to me like the AFR's are a better deal.

Now take a look at Victor Jr heads they run $1245 I haven't seem any flow tests from the Victor heads though so who knows. Too bad they don't come in 64cc. Anyone know some flow charts for em, I'd be willing to bet they might rival the AFR's and that's probly why afr doesn't list em next to theirs in their flow bench chart. Just a guess though.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 19th, 01, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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Actually, I was on Edelbrock's site the other day and they have their flow numbers for every one of their heads (other than the brand new ones). Go to cylinder heads and there is a link that says something like "flow data @ 28 inches."
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old Feb 19th, 01, 11:22 PM
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I've always heard that the only downside to the AFR heads are the cost. They aren't cheap but have heard that they are worth it because they make big power out of the box and are basically problem-free. Never heard of another head in the under 200cc range that can outflow the AFR 190 or 195 head.

As for the 215cc Edelbrock Victor Jr, the only test I've seen with both heads on the same flow bench was the Oct 98 issue of CHP (Flow to Go). The AFR 190 outflowed the Victor Jr intake at all lifts through .500", but flowed less above that. The AFR exhaust flowed better at all lifts tested(test went up to .600").

Chacane,
I saw a test in the Feb2001 issue of CHP where they got 411hp, 433ftlbs on 87 octane using TrickFlow 23 degree heads and the XE268 cam...is this the test you were referring to? If there was a similar test in CarCraft that I missed, please post what issue it was in if you remember. I'd like to check that one out too.
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