Advise needed on sealing Timing Chain Cover - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 03, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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Ok I am replacing my timing chain cover, gasket and seal because of a slight leak in this area. I wanted to get some advise on a few points

1) On the gasket, do I put a bead of ultra copper gasket sealer on BOTH SIDES of the gasket and then crank the cover down? Or do I smooth out the bead using my finger on on both sides?

2) I am guessing a small bead of ultra copper gasket sealer on the groove between the crank seal and the cover is wise just incase?

3) What torque do you recommend for the timing chain cover bolts?

4) Any special advise when installing the harmonic balancer? Just line it up and tighten the bolt?

1969 Camaro - GM 2003 Electron Blue
Beck Racing 383 cu in 465HP Engine - Sean Murphy Inductions Stage 2 Quadrajet
TCI Streetfighter 350 - 3.73:1 Posi 10 Bolt Rear - 12.6 sec qtr mile

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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 03, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Lewis:
Ok I am replacing my timing chain cover, gasket and seal because of a slight leak in this area. I wanted to get some advise on a few points

1) On the gasket, do I put a bead of ultra copper gasket sealer on BOTH SIDES of the gasket and then crank the cover down? Or do I smooth out the bead using my finger on on both sides?

2) I am guessing a small bead of ultra copper gasket sealer on the groove between the crank seal and the cover is wise just incase?

3) What torque do you recommend for the timing chain cover bolts?

4) Any special advise when installing the harmonic balancer? Just line it up and tighten the bolt?
A light film of of ultra copper or gaska-cinch or something similar should be plenty, mainly to stick the gasket in place while installing. The gasket itself should provide the seal. A dab where the cover meets the oil pan is also a good idea. Make sure everything is squeaky clean.

A small bead around the outer circumference of the crank seal (the metal part of the seal) is a good idea as well. Fill the crack and wipe away the excess.

100 inch pounds should be plenty. I ususally do it by feel with a 1/4" drive socket and a short extension.

Use a threaded balancer installer to install the balancer. If you try to pull it on with the bolt, you risk pulling the threads out of the nose of the crank. The threaded installer threads all the way into the crank snout, and then the balancer is pulled into position with a nut.


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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 03, 04:12 PM
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To add to BPOS' comments...be sure the mounting flange of the cover is flat (not dempled around the bolt holes). If not, tap it out with a ball peen hammer. Secondly, make sure the lower lip of the cover is properly shaped. The oil pan should be loose to get it properly installed. If that isn't possible, you can nip the corners of the lower grove on the engine side to make it slip into position a bit better. As for torque, I don't have a manual. I'd guess about 15 ft*lbs. Even torque is more imporant than tight bolts. Too tight and the cover will warp and leak. I tend to avoid sealants except where necessary. The area between cover gasket and the rubber seal is an example of a place where I'll dope it. Let the sealant tack a minute or two before installing. Lastly, put a thin film on the crank snout and key area to minimize oil weeping around the harmonic balancer. The installation tool is a must.

-dnult

Dave
========================
68 Coupe, 350 w/ Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, cam, intake, 700R4, Dave's small body HEI
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 03, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks a bunch guys, completed the timing chain cover replacement as well as new gaskets for the Stewart water pump (including backplate).
Had the local Ace Hardware special order me a $3 tube of PERMATEX® Water Pump & Thermostat RTV Silicone Gasket Maker which is their top of the line Highest water-glycol resistance available RTV silicon for the water pump back plate and water pump to engine gaskets. This stuff is the best for the water pump.
Went with PERMATEX® ULTRA COPPER® Hi-Temp RTV Silicone Gasket Maker for the timing cover gasket (both sides thin coat) as well as around the crank seal to timing cover and the harmonic balancer to crank connection.

Everything seems good except for the SPECTRE Chrome timing cover doesn't have a dent for the doubleroller timing chain 'bearing' so there is just a slight indentation in the cover where it sits. Doesn't seem to be applying to much pressure so I hope that it doesn't cause any problems. If I do it again I'll have to special order a chrome timing cover like my original painted cover that has 3 creases meeting the center to provide room for this bearing that goes between the cover and the timing chain sprocket.

Also noticed that one of my valve covers is causing most of my oil drop so I am getting a set of VS12869T Permadry valve cover gaskets to resolve that issue before I fill up the distrilled water and 15% antifreeze (live in southern cali) and fire her up...


1969 Camaro - GM 2003 Electron Blue
Beck Racing 383 cu in 465HP Engine - Sean Murphy Inductions Stage 2 Quadrajet
TCI Streetfighter 350 - 3.73:1 Posi 10 Bolt Rear - 12.6 sec qtr mile

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old Sep 29th, 03, 03:38 PM
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Do you mean that the cam button is riding hard against the cover? If so, that's a bad thing. I would fix that problem before running the motor. Otherwise you'll wear out the timing gear, block, or thrust washer in nothing flat if not wear a hole in the cover.

Dave
========================
68 Coupe, 350 w/ Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, cam, intake, 700R4, Dave's small body HEI
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old Sep 30th, 03, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Oh please oh please don't tell me this... I have everything back together, radiator filled up even, haven't started it yet.

See the picture below, the cam button is pressing against the new chrome timing cover. As you can see in the second picture you can see the slight indentation from this thing. The pressure isn't that great, the only thing I could see is that there would be additional wear on this little thing in the middle. We are not talking much pressure, I'm thinking the small amount of pressure would eventually wear away. My understanding is the button is there to prevent the cam from moving forward, the 5 pounds of pressure although a tight fit I would think would be fine, although I am by no means an expert at engines, just disassembly/assembly in general is my forte. My understanding is some engines also have springs on these cam buttons but I did not see one on mine (did not look closely), thus the amount of pressure from the indented timing cover I would think would be comparable to running a spring loaded cam button.

Crane Cams Roller Cam and Roller Lifters
Button is a 'Crane Needle Bearing Cam Button Spacer' which has a bearing built into it.







[ 09-30-2003, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: Brian Lewis ]

1969 Camaro - GM 2003 Electron Blue
Beck Racing 383 cu in 465HP Engine - Sean Murphy Inductions Stage 2 Quadrajet
TCI Streetfighter 350 - 3.73:1 Posi 10 Bolt Rear - 12.6 sec qtr mile

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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 03, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
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Well I've gone ahead and ordered a new Summit Timing Cover and gasket set to do this over again. I can't believe a $7.75 Chrome timing cover from Summit has the proper indentations to support a roller cam and the Kragen sold Spectre Timing Cover set for $20 didn't even when it says 'FITS ALL SMALL BLOCK CHEVY ENGINES', yea right! We'll be testing the Kragen return policy next week sometime when I return them a previously installed timing cover, gasket, and seal! Spectre should fix their packaging and say not for use on Roller Cam engines. Man although the second time is always faster I am still looking at 4-6 hours of work this Saturday doing it all over again! But its probably best, don't want to damage my Beck Racing Engine, its a very well built engine with top of the line components and I don't want to create a headache.

1969 Camaro - GM 2003 Electron Blue
Beck Racing 383 cu in 465HP Engine - Sean Murphy Inductions Stage 2 Quadrajet
TCI Streetfighter 350 - 3.73:1 Posi 10 Bolt Rear - 12.6 sec qtr mile

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