new ZL1 build suggestions. Help needed!!! - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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Scott
 
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new ZL1 build suggestions. Help needed!!!

Guys, just got a new crate ZL1 for my X22 69's heart. I was looking at a dated correct 4 bolt block and they command big bucks! A great friend of mine, had made a trade to an iconic Camaro guy and ended up with this block new in crate which he gave me a ridiculously awesome deal on. Now I have to pick all the parts that go with it to become a bullet proof, drivable machine. I had always drooled over the anniversary engine but thought the power was low for the 22k that they are advertised for. I know it will take a little while to afford the better stuff to put in it but having owned this car since 1988, I'm willing to do it. I'm starting from scratch and do not want to make a costly mistake to set me back. If anybody has built one feedback would be greatly appreciated. Also things to watch out for and not to do. Thank you

Scott



69 RS/SS X22 51-51 Dusk Blue coupe in resto......still.
69 X11 355 ci M22 3:73 12 bolt...current driver
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 01:40 PM
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Morgan
 
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Re: new ZL1 build suggestions. Help needed!!!

I am nearing completion of the same zl-1 motor with 850 block. You have the earlier one judging by the blue plugs and label. I know from a local source ( I live 15 miles from Schwartz machine that finishes this block) that at one point they had a line bore issue, check that. Mine was perfect the motor builder says, the cam bearings were a little tight, these things are a piece of jewelry, they should be for 5k!

You need to run studs and the Mls gaskets, stock Melling m77 pump, no high volume, in a Camaro, you need to modify the stock windage tray/oil pan baffle.

What heads? Original 074 will end up being $2,500 done, good cores are getting hard to find, no more than 1 weld repair per head is recommended. The 074 heads have porosity issues and big roller springs are not good, I am running a flat tappet solid.

Do not bore these out if you don't have to. The thinner the liners, the more heat. Buy scat forged crank and rods over eagle, mine were right there, diamond pistons are the answer if you want a specific compression. I am only going with 11.60, it will run on pump gas, stock was 12.5.

The cam will then determine your bleed off, the original zl-1 cam is to much and lazy for the street, the look at the l88 cam, especially if you are running exhaust manifolds.the 198 correct intake is pricey, the 163 is virtually the same except the plenum divider is cut down on the 198.

Build a Holley 850 4781 ( if you need a stock look like I do)with the 198 intake, stagger jet it like the 4296 Holley that it came with. Stock curved distributor with a pertronix 3, initial at 18-20 degrees and mechanical advance 20-24. The guys run 44 degrees total at the track, no vacuum advance to kill bottom end power, timing curve should be slow, total advance all in above 3,000, otherwise you will need tires real soon.

Keep us in the loop

69 Copo 9560 ZL-1 automatic [email protected], 1.95 on f70-14 polyglas F.AS.T. Race June 2016
69 Copo 9560 ZL-1 4spd [email protected] 1.93 60ft on F70/14
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 01:55 PM
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Chet
 
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Re: new ZL1 build suggestions. Help needed!!!

Wow. What is wrong with you guys? Don't you know 427s are supposed to be LS based? Geez. (sarcasm on full setting).
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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Scott
 
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Re: new ZL1 build suggestions. Help needed!!!

Morgan, Thanks for the reply! Did you custom order pistons from Diamond? Did your bore stay 4.250? I think it comes 4.240 unfinished. I would hate to go .30 over on a new block unless it is going to cost big bucks for custom stuff.

I was thinking of using new GMPP Roval 2.25 heads and matching CNC intake like the crate engine uses. I'd like to keep it streetable and not be tempermental. 10 to 1 comp. maybe stroke it 481 cubes or so using a 4.25 crank

Cam bearings: are they the 12499434 gm?
Did you use the arp head studs 235-4321 ?

Thanks so much. I have a bazillion other questions...
Scott

69 RS/SS X22 51-51 Dusk Blue coupe in resto......still.
69 X11 355 ci M22 3:73 12 bolt...current driver
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 03:29 PM
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Anne
 
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Re: new ZL1 build suggestions. Help needed!!!

I would stroke it (4.25") and never turn it over 5800 rpm.

I have no desire to spin a BBC to the moon and risk losing a block like that.

JMHO. 500 to 550 hp with a good idle is easily achievable.

Doug posted this link to a nice stroker kit : http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/engin...e-pistons.html

And these heads are a little better than the GM (edelbrock) : http://www.jegs.com/i/Brodix/158/206...oR9RoC_Y3w_wcB

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Last edited by Lawrence454; Jul 26th, 15 at 03:40 PM.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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Scott
 
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Re: new ZL1 build suggestions. Help needed!!!

thanks for the links. I defiantly would look into those heads. I just don't want it to be a dog down low.
As for the rotating assembly I will go with forged crank and pistons. It seems like the only 4.250" in stock pistons are speed pro or Icon's and I'm looking to step up on quality.

69 RS/SS X22 51-51 Dusk Blue coupe in resto......still.
69 X11 355 ci M22 3:73 12 bolt...current driver
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 06:31 PM
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Morgan
 
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Re: new ZL1 build suggestions. Help needed!!!

Camshaft choice should be the start, do you have power brakes? If so, you need to watch the duration. If you are not interested in the stock top end, then the choice is unlimited.

Headers? The stock 074 and all rectangle heads flow at the high end, so you need rpm, I will shift mine at 6,800, a 496 with a Hydraulic roller you would shift at 5,800. The new style ROVAL heads are a great compromise and work better on the street.

Yes on head studs and that block uses a set from arp that is pricey at $365!
No idea on bearing size or number.

Yes the pistons are custom. With all of that alluminum, you can up the compression and still run pump gas, the anniversary zl1 has a small cam and no compression

69 Copo 9560 ZL-1 automatic [email protected], 1.95 on f70-14 polyglas F.AS.T. Race June 2016
69 Copo 9560 ZL-1 4spd [email protected] 1.93 60ft on F70/14
PSMCDR 2014
71LS6 vette [email protected] PSMCDR 2012 SOLD
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 06:32 PM
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Morgan
 
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Re: new ZL1 build suggestions. Help needed!!!

1 more, yes on the 4.25 pistons, just honed them.

69 Copo 9560 ZL-1 automatic [email protected], 1.95 on f70-14 polyglas F.AS.T. Race June 2016
69 Copo 9560 ZL-1 4spd [email protected] 1.93 60ft on F70/14
PSMCDR 2014
71LS6 vette [email protected] PSMCDR 2012 SOLD
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 06:52 PM
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Anne
 
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Re: new ZL1 build suggestions. Help needed!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooky View Post
It seems like the only 4.250" in stock pistons are speed pro or Icon's and I'm looking to step up on quality.
Speed Pro's are excellent quality unless you are just wanting an expensive ultralight piston.

And a forged crank is a total waste of money unless you are building a high-rpm (7000) motor.

Head over to Team Chevelle in the performance section. They are nothing but big block racers over there.

Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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Scott
 
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Re: new ZL1 build suggestions. Help needed!!!

power brakes- yes
headers- yes 2 1/8 inch
4 speed
rear gear TBD prob 3.31 or 3.55

would I chose a cam before head piston choice? I would think i need c/r and head volume first.

I would not want to skimp on parts, but don't want to spend 20k. Done once, done right!

what is wrong with 6500 shifts

69 RS/SS X22 51-51 Dusk Blue coupe in resto......still.
69 X11 355 ci M22 3:73 12 bolt...current driver
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 07:28 PM
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Anne
 
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Re: new ZL1 build suggestions. Help needed!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooky View Post
power brakes- yes
headers- yes 2 1/8 inch
Way too big. 1-7/8 to 2" max. ZZ502 recommends 2"
And bigger tubes means PITA spark plug changes.


4 speed
rear gear TBD prob 3.31 or 3.55

would I chose a cam before head piston choice? I would think i need c/r and head volume first.

I would not want to skimp on parts, but don't want to spend 20k. Done once, done right!

what is wrong with 6500 shifts

Nothing wrong with 6500 shifts , it's just that the cam will be miserable to drive on the street. Why build a big torque monster and then cam it like it's a 302 Z28?
JMHO
.
.

Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
Ronald Reagan
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