Zinc Additive in Quaker State - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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Zinc Additive in Quaker State

I was told by a mechanic that Shell Oil bought Quaker State Oil and has re-formulated all their oil to very high standards to improve the quality. One of there new formulas has added Zinc to the standards necessary for the old tappet cams. All the mechanics that attended the seminar on the "new" Quaker products have switched to QS oil. Any comments from you guys as I am about to change oil in my 69's.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 02:23 PM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

Valvoline VR1 10W30 conventional in silver bottle. Already proven.

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 02:39 PM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

You run 10-30 in your 69?

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 03:24 PM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

I believe only "racing oils" have enough zinc and phosphorous to protect a flat tappet cam.

I would use Lucas synthetic 10W-30 racing oil. Or VR-1 racing oil.

There are no oils for modern cars that have enough zinc ; the levels are mandated by the EPA I believe.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 04:03 PM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

What Quaker State oil is it the Defy High Mileage motor oil has extra zinc in it have they come out with another one .I have also read somewhere that the G / M Engineers are asking the oil companies to add a bit more ZDDP to their depleted oils. It seems as though they are starting to get worn out roller cam lobes and worn out lifters .They posted a pic of a cam that had eroded and the worn lifters. Alex
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 04:08 PM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

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Originally Posted by dt View Post
valvoline vr1 10w30 conventional in silver bottle. Already proven.
x2
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 05:28 PM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

What will it take to get people to understand that all oil is backward compatible for older engines? What will it take to get people to read the standards for motor oil and what they mean? What will it take to make people read the engineering papers that say the old ZDDP levels were much higher than needed? When will people understand that cam companies are going to blame the oil companies for their shortcomings in materials used in their products? When will people understand that it is substandard material lifters and improper break in procedures to blame for camshaft failures? For every one flat tappet cam failure there are thousands that don't fail. When will people quit trying to think they are more clever than anybody else and quit trying to find the 99 cent per quart oil that will give them the peace of mind that they will never have? When will people switch to roller cams or use the known high ZDDP level oils like Brad Penn, Valvoline, VR-1, Gibbs, Amsoil, or Royal Purple if they refuse to believe the oils are not backwards compatible as required of the petroleum companies by the auto makers, not the EPA?
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 06:30 PM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

1. Quaker was acquired by Shell over 12 years ago. I would be surprised if some magical reformulation has taken place just recently. That said, Shell makes some very fine products.
2. Unless you are running stiffer than the factory valve springs (at least on a GM) vehicle, your 69 will do fine on today's motor oil (unless it is a ZL-1).
3. Flat tappet HIGH PERFORMANCE (meaning higher than factory spring pressures) will need something with zinc AND phosphorus, as they work together.
4. Any of today's diesel oils will probably work fine on a solid lifter, high lift flat tappet camshaft.
Personally, the only additive I would trust is the GM EOS, and even then, one bottle for camshaft break in, half a bottle with each oil change. Just my personal opinion based on experience.

Really good article right here with different points of view (note that the article frequently references high performance.... they aren't talking about a stock 350):

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2008...ives-got-zinc/

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 07:09 PM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

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Originally Posted by onefiness View Post
if they refuse to believe the oils are not backwards compatible as required of the petroleum companies by the auto makers, not the EPA?
Oil companies are not required to manufacture an everyday oil that will protect a .650" lift flat tappet cam.

Claiming oils are "backward compatible" is true for common street engines.

I run a roller and use Mobil 1. I would never tell a racer who is "stuck in the dark ages" running a super-high-lift cam that any oil will protect his cam.

540RAT is a mech engineer who tests oil and his tests show that in "extreme" conditions zinc and phosphorous in the right amount and with the correct detergent do protect better.

Do modern engines need it ? No.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 15, 09:33 PM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

Picking and choosing what to remember what 540 Rat wrote does a disservice to everyone. Here's what he wrote just last month (if we are going to call him the end-all-be-all oil expert):

The old belief that any high zinc oil will provide sufficient wear protection for any engine has never been true, but gullible people have been brainwashed to believe it anyway. And repeating completely false information a million times, does NOT magically make it become true. The fact is, flat tappet lobes are still being wiped while using high zinc oils, because people are following bad advice from critics and even Cam Companies, who simply don't know what they are talking about when it comes to motor oil.


The whole idea of simply needing a high zinc level for sufficient wear protection, is only an old wives tale myth that has been busted. Modern extreme pressure anti-wear additives are equal to or better than zinc. Relying only on zinc as the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology.Wiped flat tappet lobes continue to happen over and over again, when people use high zinc oils that produce poor results in my testing. Itís time to take notice of that.


540 RAT has also done a study that showed that an oil's ability to hold a high film strength and resist shear was far more important than ZDDP levels.

I sincerely doubt a racer running a .650 lift cam is going to be asking anybody what oil to run, but it seems our average 5000-7000 mile a year Camaro driver can't seem to let this issue go.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 15, 06:22 AM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

Quote:
Originally Posted by onefiness View Post
Picking and choosing what to remember what 540 Rat wrote does a disservice to everyone. Here's what he wrote just last month (if we are going to call him the end-all-be-all oil expert):

The old belief that any high zinc oil will provide sufficient wear protection for any engine has never been true, but gullible people have been brainwashed to believe it anyway. And repeating completely false information a million times, does NOT magically make it become true. The fact is, flat tappet lobes are still being wiped while using high zinc oils, because people are following bad advice from critics and even Cam Companies, who simply don't know what they are talking about when it comes to motor oil.


The whole idea of simply needing a high zinc level for sufficient wear protection, is only an old wives tale myth that has been busted. Modern extreme pressure anti-wear additives are equal to or better than zinc. Relying only on zinc as the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology.Wiped flat tappet lobes continue to happen over and over again, when people use high zinc oils that produce poor results in my testing. Itís time to take notice of that.


540 RAT has also done a study that showed that an oil's ability to hold a high film strength and resist shear was far more important than ZDDP levels.

I sincerely doubt a racer running a .650 lift cam is going to be asking anybody what oil to run, but it seems our average 5000-7000 mile a year Camaro driver can't seem to let this issue go.
You are mixing and choosing quotes to make your point. 540RAT was talking about people using zddp in engines that don't have extreme valve lifts/durations with a flat tappet cam.

That's all I'm saying. If you look at his list of top-performing oils, they are racing oils with higher levels of zinc/phosphorous.

It's better to be safe than sorry. If you are running a long duration high lift flat tappet, I would use one of 540RAT's recommended oils.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 15, 02:33 PM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

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Originally Posted by cruzin View Post
You run 10-30 in your 69?
Yes. Switched from Brad Penn.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 15, 02:41 PM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

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Valvoline VR1 10W30 conventional in silver bottle. Already proven.
I had great results running it in the old 406 SBC for years....even with the 25X/26X @ .050 cam and .630 something lift solid roller.

Now in my DD's for years, it was Mobil1 and no issues....as is with the LSx in the Camaro now.

QS, I had no real dealings with.... and won't. But, that's just me.

68 Camaro~LSx ~all motor
1.54 60'--6.95 @ 98.45 660'--10.96 @ 121.53
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 15, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

I have been running 20-50 Castrol Synthetic oil with Cop Cams additive in my high lift comp cam 468 BB and I am ready to change oil, it has 1500 miles on the restoration. I use that oil in my other 2 SB and 2 other BB for as long as I can remember. One SB I have had for 37 years, another 25 and the 427 C-10 for 27 years. None have had any breakdowns as far as the engine goes and all have some miles on them. Never even thought about Zinc!!!
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 15, 04:15 PM
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Re: Zinc Additive in Quaker State

The old adage of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind. You've had great success with the Castrol, why in the world would you be looking to make a change?
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