Does pinion angle =vibration - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 02, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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I posted before about driveshaft vibrations and some suggestions were driveshaft balance and to check the pinion angle. I got the driveshaft balanced and it took away most of the vibrations but it still peaks at 50-60mph. What is the correct pinion angle? Doesn't the angle change under load? Its a 70 camaro th350 if that has any affect on the angle. Im assuming pinion and is angle of shaft to rear. Thanks for any help.
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 02, 06:47 PM
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I'm setting mine to 4 degrees down from level when the driveline is not under a load (not moving) i'm setting to 4 degrees becuase some of the other forum members recommended it.
It DOES change with a load, thats why you set it to say 4 degrees, becuase you want it to be 0 degrees under a load. The axles put a "twist" or "torque" on the rear when your moving and the pinion will rise a few degrees, the more it twists the more the pinion will rise.
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 02, 12:45 AM
 
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To be exactly precise, the angle of the pinion should be relative to the angle of the output shaft of the transmission. A few degrees down will help to compensate for axle wrap up under load so that the pinion angle is equal to, or parallel to, the output shaft when it is under a load. As a general rule, the pinion angle shouldn't be set relative to the ground, or exact level, but to the output shaft of the transmission.
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 02, 02:26 AM
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 02, 01:56 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CamaroNOTcamero:
I'm setting mine to 4 degrees down from level when the driveline is not under a load (not moving) i'm setting to 4 degrees becuase some of the other forum members recommended it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just to be clear CNC, when you say "not under load" you mean torque load don't you. You definately do want the vehicle weight load on the rear axle when making this adjustment. I think that is what you meant, but wanted to be sure.
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 02, 04:55 PM
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hey guys, now i am installing a ford 9 in my 68 camaro, what is the best way to weld the perches on at the right angle??? i want to make it right and how do i do that?? do i set perches on leaf springs, the set rearend on perches in car,center axle,then measure pinion angle and then tack weld perches, then take out and weld solid&gt;??? also how can i make it like the vehucle weight is on it when the perches are not welded and i have to rotate the axle to get correct angle??? please give me a explanation, i would greatly appreciate it, thanks Jake
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 02, 05:41 PM
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Yeah, torque load, not weight from the car.
I set it up using a GM diagram, so i'm willing to bet that i'm safe since thats the way the general did it.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 02, 06:58 PM
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Hey Guys,

Help me with this one!! The diagram shown above from Inland Empire Driveline looks to me like the pinion angle is set 3 or 4 degrees ABOVE level. I keep reading about people setting them BELOW level. Am I missing something here or just looking at this upside down??

Doug




[This message has been edited by GDV350SS (edited 08-14-2002).]
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 02, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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I agree the diagram is above level, is that what it is suppose to be? Right now mine is below level by probably a little more than four degrees, could that cause the vibration I described?
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 02, 07:42 PM
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The GM diagram i got showed it down, not up like inline empire.
I dont understand why they would want it 3 degrees up, when under full throttlw it would have the potential to move to 7 degrees or more up, and i think that would cuase vibrations.
Steve jack, any reason why that diagram is like that?
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 15th, 02, 05:41 AM
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It would depend on which direction you transmission is pointing. If it is pointing down like in the photo above, then your pinion should point up like in the photo, so that they are parallel. If your tranny points up, then your pinion should point down so that they will be parallel.

I think the tranny pointing up is more common, but sometimes it points down, like when you have a Tremec and can't push the rear of the tranny up anymore because it hits the trans tunnel.

The important thing is that the two center lines are parallel, and that the angle of them to the driveshaft isn't too large, 3 degress max according to the photo above.

Ray www.geocities.com/hrayhouston
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 15th, 02, 07:34 AM
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It is my understanding (I read it on this sight and believe it was from someone knowledgeable but canít remember who) that the standard configuration for a 1st gen Camaro using standard motor and transmission mounts puts the transmission at approximately 4 degrees down. If this is indeed correct, than the pinion needs to be up 4 degrees to be parallel. Any thoughts or more knowledge about this would be appreciated.

The more I learn the less I know!

Doug
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 15th, 02, 07:38 AM
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It is my understanding (I read it on this sight and believe it was from someone knowledgeable but canít remember who) that the standard configuration for a 1st gen Camaro using standard motor and transmission mounts puts the transmission at approximately 4 degrees down. If this is indeed correct, than the pinion needs to be up 4 degrees to be parallel. Any thoughts or more knowledge about this would be appreciated.

steve70: I hope that we get to figure this out because I beleive it may be the cause of your vibration as well as mine.

The more I learn the less I know!

Doug



[This message has been edited by GDV350SS (edited 08-15-2002).]
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 15th, 02, 05:04 PM
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Guys. A couple of points here.

First, Steve70, if your angle does not look like the diagram.....Yes indeed the vibration is coming from mismatched angles. The center line of the crankshaft and transmission output shaft must be parallel to the center line of the pinion shaft as shown in the figure above. There are NO exceptions to this configuration unless you are a serious drag racer.

Camaronotcamaro....wrap up doesn't always happen if corrected for. And, you set the driveline for the most common mode of operation...cruising which the pinion is basically in a static mode. After initial wrap up deflection, the angle starts to decrease proportionately. If you are using the car just for drags then angles should be studied further for optimization and hopefully traction bars in place if you are worried about wrap up. Four bar links do not move at all. So, no need there.

68ssconvertible.....you are wisdomic in your post with one exception. "I think the tranny pointing up is more common, but sometimes it points down" This statement is incorrect. Most,if not ALL engine driveline designs are pointing the tranny down at the rear. There are several reasons for this. One is that it gives gravity a chance to work with the lubricant return mechanisims and cooling passages to natually expel air. All longitudinal mounted engines that I know of drain oil to the pan visa via gravity with oil flowing back and cooling systems (water jackets in the blocks and heads) to expell air with a planned downward plane in back. Also, note that most intake manifolds have built in corrective leveling angles of 3 to 4 degrees to allow the leveling of the carb. Some modern engines have as little as 2 degrees down in back.

GDV350SS....you are absolutely correct. Stock positoning of the Camaro should be found at 4 degrees down in back. Of course modifications that many throw in could alter this, but I have always found 3 to 4 degees down in back. This was the GM specification as well for all V8s longitudinally mounted to date except fuel injection cars which is 3 degrees. Your vibration is coming from mismatched angles for sure, I would bet on it.

Hope this helps!



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[This message has been edited by HOTRODSRJ (edited 08-16-2002).]
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 15th, 02, 05:29 PM
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Steve, thanks for the explaination.
I'm setting mine up for street/strip, with more concern for streetablity, so i did mine to GM specs.
I'm going to be using leaf springs in there stock mounts. If i find traction to be a problem i will be using Cal-Tracks.
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