engine builder's code of ethics?? / big block oil pressure ?? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 03, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Hi guys, as some of you may know, I am not in located in the USA so the queries here are really for USA based engine builders and anyone else who has spent alot of money getting a race engine built

my friends here are into racing in a big way and have in the past 2 years built two chevy engines (sb and BB) at a shop in or around Hialeah, FL - (dont wish to say at this stage)costing upwards of $10,000-$12,000 each overall ( all parts like nitro kits carbs etc bought new )

Each time the guy has said he dynoed the engine and billed for it but he:-

a) sends both engines without a dyno sheet and no matter how many times we call he never remembers to send it on to us

b)never sends any specification sheets about the engine, timing (save for a red mark on the balancer), work done , torque or other measurements info. stroke/rod lengths - nothing

All you know its a sb or a bb - and of course if there is a problem or any enhancements you have to call him for everything and he sources the parts or enhancements (like abigger carb etc)

Please note the SB engine has performed - the sb in the 9/s but we have had to send the sb back once - for repairs ( block leak water - new block)at considerable shipping expense to us

Now the guy has just completed the big block - all we know it has canfield heads (like the SB) and was commissioned to run 8/s - and because of the block being a GM block (and not an enormously expensive merlin block) he says maximum nitro shot is 175hp - no more!!

So the big block was supposedly dynoed (as I say we dont know) and we say conspicuous marker pen words on the engine saying "oil" and an arrow pointing to part of the manifold and "water" with arrow pointing to head

Leaks I believe that were supposed to have been found at startup in FL or at dyno

We just took delivery of it - again despite many reminders no dyno sheet - only instructions we got was verbal - to enusre oil is put directly into filter and to note that there is no oil in crankcase -

again no spec sheet available but the engine appears by plugs and manifold to have been started

upon checking filter - filter had oil and was full - oil pan was drained of at least 1 gallon of oil - its a moroso 8 qt pan

added fresh oil 8 quarts and started - engine started on one click and idled at 1000 rpm
oil pressure stayed at 35 - 38 LBS - a brand new big block race engine - a slight tap of the throttle no movement of oil pressure

turned off immediately and changed oil pressure gauge for brand new one by autometer (by the way only ports for gauge we found were near to oil filter screw base - we tried all the ports - seemed to be about 2 or 3 ports there)

oil pressure at 35 - 40 lbs at idle - fresh oil cool oil etc.

We cant consult specs so we had to call - he says that maybe the pump needed priming !!!!

how could this be when the engine was supposedly dynoed / started and had at least one gallon of oil left back in it upon arrival

And that we could have scratched bearings upon start up - this is a race engine and we just barely turned over the engine a few cranks and it clicked right away

How could scratched bearings appear in that instant to reduce oil pressure from what he says was about 60 lbs on this dyno test/sheet that we have not seen

His answer (as usual) is to send it back he doesnt want us to touch it - he will check it and send it back - more cost to us again

My vote is to fire him but he has all our money and we have no engine so we have to send it back for him to fix

The problem is - he can always fix it to get it running and then say we had a run of bad luck when it eats itself

How do you guys get recompense and have builders checked out to see if they are tricksters??

How do you know one dyno sheet from another that you can say thats my engine - or ask the dyno shop directly if they recognise any sheet as being that engine ??

any tips to how we can check this guy out that he did dyno the engine ( as opposed to starting it himself) before he sent it on to us

any help would be appreciated !!

T.K.

T.K.-85 Camaro-383ci/AFR 210 CNCport-65cc/ProSystem750DP/SRP 7cc dome/Motown int./Comp.S roller 268/275-108*-.720"/.700"@1.6/Big Shot plate/TH-350/8in. conv./4.71 Ford 9in/1.75 super comp/10pt. cage/29.5x10.5x15
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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 03, 03:16 PM
DjD
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Dennis
 
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I'm sure this is the last thing you want to hear right now but I've opt'd to keep it at the top of the performance forum for easy refrence!!

https://www.camaros.net/forum/ultimat...c;f=4;t=007091

Now some questions. Why, if after having issues unresolved with the SBC did you follow up with an order for a BBC? I understand your choices are limited locally and the SBC performed as designed but there were a lot of untied loose ends. I'm thinking you actually have been doing business with a repetuable shop. Most builders that deal in 8 and 9sec mills don't offer more than basic support.

Something you said bothered me about the oil you added. You drained 1 gal out and added 2 gals back in (4 qts = 1 gal) possibly leaving you 4 qts over to get whipped into foam resulting in loss of oil pressure. I can't imagine the builder only draining half the oil prior to shipping. I know you said it's an 8 qt pan but are you sure? If it were a 5qt pan that would be a quick answer...

...Dennis

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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 03, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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My friends confirm that about 6 quarts was drained from the pan - and that the oil filter was full of oil

the builder said after calling to confirm that he shipped that he had drained the oil and we must pour oil in the filter

this is more to point out the unreliable and inadequate information we got with a new engine that costs serious money

We went with 8 fresh quarts because the pan has the same kickout wide sump as the small block

Honestly no one can tell on paper if its a 10 or 12 or even 5 qt pan unless we got that info. or check a part number

T.K.-85 Camaro-383ci/AFR 210 CNCport-65cc/ProSystem750DP/SRP 7cc dome/Motown int./Comp.S roller 268/275-108*-.720"/.700"@1.6/Big Shot plate/TH-350/8in. conv./4.71 Ford 9in/1.75 super comp/10pt. cage/29.5x10.5x15
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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 03, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
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To be fair about the small block - that has been a consistent 9 sec performer

However , after a fair bit of runs - we detected water in the oil - builder decided he would send a block cut to our specs and we could reassemble it

We did, engine underperformed and we told him that the block was not decked as the first one - ( he never responded or denied )
He said send it back and he did not charge - well we paid some labour soemwhere I am sure - except for the new items like Wilson manifolds nitro system etc

we sent it back and he repaired the engine and sent it back - no major problems since - save that just like the first time - we got no dyno sheet AGAIN!!

T.K.-85 Camaro-383ci/AFR 210 CNCport-65cc/ProSystem750DP/SRP 7cc dome/Motown int./Comp.S roller 268/275-108*-.720"/.700"@1.6/Big Shot plate/TH-350/8in. conv./4.71 Ford 9in/1.75 super comp/10pt. cage/29.5x10.5x15
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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old Jul 9th, 03, 04:05 PM
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I get a little ticked at my balancing guy. He never gives me any info sheets on the work. The little 302 engine spins like a sewing machine though! I can't argue with him. Nobody else in town does this type of work! I feel lucky to have him actualy. It is VERY hard to build engines here where I live now.

-Mark.
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