full roller vs. roller tip rockers - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 01, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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I have a mild 350 and was wondering if there is a big difference in performance between full roller and roller tip rockers? Also with full roller I've heard that they need constant adjusting. Is this true?
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 01, 01:25 AM
 
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If you want to go roller,get a hydralic roller cam if you are going to run it on the strip but if you are going to run strickly drag the solid roller will free up more hp but you will have to adjust them often!A hydralic roller is a very good cam.Just buy adding a hyrdalic cam it will add about 25 to 30 hp.solid even more!Now rocker arm ,the stamped steel rocker is a more durable rocker arm,the aluminum rocker is a lightwieght full roller arm,but you will have to get guide plates put on your head unless you get the self aligning rocker arm.Both of these combined will free up a lot of horsepower!I like hydralic roller a lot better than a flat-tappet cam.


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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 1st, 01, 08:02 AM
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the full roller rockers will reduce friction resulting in faster valve opening (less drag), lower heat and more resistance to breakage. If you compare roller tips to full rollers that are otherwise exactly alike (ratio and stiffness) the full rollers will probably put out a little more power theoretically. I haven't heard anything about having to adjust them.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 01, 09:13 AM
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CAr Craft just tested this and if anything the roller tips had just a little more HP than the rollers if I remember correctly. This could be attributed to differences in valve adjustment though. I feel that the biggest difference is in reduced heat due to the roller pivot.

If you're going with a roller cam by all means go full roller to better handle the bigger valvetrain load. I know my stock stamped steel rockers didn't like my hydraulic roller at all. I put the Comp Cams Pro Magnums on 3 years ago (30,000 miles) and haven't adjusted them since. Just make sure the tops of your studs are flat.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 01, 01:48 PM
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Phil

Keep in mind if you want to run the full roller rockers you might want to get screw in studs and guideplates. I doubt you are gonna take that on just yet. Lets see what you got and we'll go from there.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 2nd, 01, 02:49 PM
 
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"How to Hot Rod Small Block Chevy's" by HP books has quite a story on the fact that they really aren't needed but if you just have to spend the money for the bragging rights then buy full roller rocker arms. And in the same chapter it tells how the Smoke just ground about 3/16" off the top of the Generals finest stock rocker arms and lightened them for a little gain in rpm and stuff.

I bought CC's cast Magnum "econo" roller rockers because of them being 1.72 vs 1.70 to 1 ratio, plus they are more accurate or uniform then the stock ones. Plus, I just subtracted the cost of a new set of stockers and they were "cheap".

I know that they can only be used w/ 350 or so pound springs at open dimension because they are cast (or something like that). But I'm not running a solid roller. pdq67



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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 01, 12:11 PM
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Roller tip rockers dont do a bunch of anything, the only power you get from them is from a better ratio or maybe a little less deflection.

Under high speed photography the roller tip just rolls around with no appaerent pattern some times on way , some times the other and sometimes not at all. Roller tip arms are a sales gimick

Full roller rockers will help keep the oil temp down BUT the same is true- very little hP gain if any with out changing the ratio. They do have an advantage of strength and with high rpm/ killer springs they are needed .

Remeber 600 HP ZL-1s? they had stamped long slot rocker arms.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 01, 03:41 PM
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full roller rocker's are not for the street, they are ment for a race car, running WOT all day long. roller tip's are a good idea. they are more uniform in ratieo then stamped, they are stronger too.

the roller on the tip is there for a # of thing's. the main thing is less friction and a more positive uniform opening and closeing of the valve. also the contribute to less valve train where and tear.

for the cost a set of comp cam's magnium roller tip rocker's it is a good deal. on my motor they helped make about 10 more horse's but that is from there 1.52:1 ratieo. the motor also run's cooler and is more resoponsive. the new LS-6 uses roller tip rocker's so that tell's me the general think's that they are a good thing.

diesel motor's have used roller lifter's and roller tip rocker's for year's because of the benifit's. dowm time cost's a trucker money, so the maker's want to limit that! or there product's do not sell.

hope this help's, roller tip rocker's have been around for year's and are a good product and they are worth the money IMHO.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 9th, 01, 10:41 AM
 
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I have CC pro magnum roller rockers on dart heads and a solid lift cam in a car I drive twice a week. It runs low 12's in the 1/4 mile and runs very smooth on the street. I have had great success with them and they never need adjusting. Being a mechanical engineer, it is only logical that power loss with stamped steel rockers is true. However, how much are you really losing? I switched to 1.6 ratio to gain extra lift and that is worth something in itself. Question is: Do you want to spend $250 for roller rockers?
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 01, 07:49 AM
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Yep if you do get em go with a higher ratio like 1.6 or 1.7
It also really depends on what cam your running. For the street you only need a total of about .500 lift. If you have a good duration cam with not so much lift then the increase in ratio would give you more power. It all depends on the motor I guess. I have too much other stuff to buy before I worry about better rockers. One other thing to think about is what kind of gain are you getting per dollar spent? Not a whole lot. They're probly good for engines that are constantly running due to less friction but do you run your motor for 8 hours a day?

IMHO most normal engines don't need em, but like I said the only way I would buy em is if I could find a good used set of either 1.6 or 1.7 ratio. I could have got 1.5's but the $100 for em ain't worth it IMO with the use my engine gets. I'll hold out til I come across a higher ratio.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 29th, 01, 05:52 PM
 
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I just installed Crane Cam self aligning "gold" roller rockers on my 91 L-98 Corvette. I adjusted them per manufaturers instructions. The car runs fine but they are noisier than the stock rocker arms. Is this normal? I hope so because I do not want to take off the valve covers again if not needed. Thanks for your help.

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 29th, 01, 06:58 PM
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If you are building a mild 350, then I personally wouldn't bother with the roller rockers. The biggest advantage you would have would be a higher ratio than stock. Again, if it's a mild motor, you might not want alot of lift. The more lift and faster valve movement does add a little more stress to the valvetrain. You can also buy stamped steel rockers in a 1.6 and maybe even a 1.7:1 ratio if you need the extra lift. If you're using a big cam and turning high RPM then the rollers maybe worth it. I agree with 67stock. If you looking for best use of your money, don't bother with the roller rockers.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 29th, 01, 09:04 PM
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Larry, yes full roller rockers are noisy (that is normal).

As far as the roller tip vs. the full roller. Like many people have said the main advantage any aftermarket rocker has over stock, is the fact that the ratio is much more accurate. Roller tips are hype (IMO), the reason I say this is because the tip does NOT roll over the valve stem. This has been proven and written many times. The reason they SLIDE accross the valve is because there is no bearing in the tip (it is a roller sitting directly on the axle/pin), the force of the valve spring over comes the roller and with all the oil on the hard valve stem it just slides (and doesn't roll). Another thing to consider it that if your valve train geometry is correct your rocker should only move over the middle 33% (or 1/3) of the vale stem (this is not much movement at all). If you are going to spend the money on rockers, you might as well get full rollers (unless you just want a higher ratio rocker). The full rollers do help reduce friction and engine oil temps.. That is my $.02 worth, some may not agree, but that's the way I see it.

Royce

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[This message has been edited by camaroman7d (edited 09-29-2001).]
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Sep 30th, 01, 09:01 AM
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We put the Comp Cams stainless steel full roller rockers on a 69 Z/28 and they were a bit quieter than the stock rockers.
The stock type rockers are prone to rocker ball failure and wear under heavy duty use, especially the exhaust rocker balls.

I'd go with the full roller rockers, and if you want them to be a bit quieter, use the stainless steel rockers.
If your cam and use are mild street duty, keep the stock stuff. You can allways change rockers later if you figure out a good reason for having them.
Not all cams and springs can handle a higher rocker ratio, check with your cam MFR before trying a different ratio.
David

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 01, 06:58 AM
 
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I guess my take is slightly different. I always try to keep in mind the end result, or the place I want thecar, performance level or whatever to be. I'm not Trump and cannot afford to buy parts 2 and 3 times. If eventually you want an 8000rpm roller motor(don't we all?)plan accordingly now. You might have 250 dollar Crane golds on a mild motor, but you don't have to replace them ever. IMO.

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