roller valve train - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 8th, 04, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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ok guys...I got a original 350 ci in my 69 SS Camaro. Of course it has stock valve train setup, and roller valve train looks pretty good for future. Do u think you could give me pros and cons. This is going to be a street car and our plan for it is for it to LAST. Also, can u give me all the info on the BEST complete roller setup that will be very durable and long lasting. Of course, roller valve train will give me less friction/heat/and wear on engine, right? And more power than stock valve train, right? Also, our plan for the engine is PROBABALY going to be somewhere in the 300-320 hp at the rear wheels. Thanks for the help and info guys!

'69 SS 350 Camaro (true X55)<br />350 turbo with shift kit<br />3.55 posi rear end<br />favorite Bible verse...all of 'em!!
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 9th, 04, 08:17 AM
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If you want 300-325 rwhp I'd suggest a hyd roller.

The only con I can think of for a mild engine like yours would be the expense. The retro cam kits are $800 ish, plus roller rockers are another $250-300 ish.


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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 9th, 04, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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ok what and where do i buy all the BEST quality parts like the rockers, pushrod, etc. And i really am not concerned about price...i just want something will last long and be durable.

'69 SS 350 Camaro (true X55)<br />350 turbo with shift kit<br />3.55 posi rear end<br />favorite Bible verse...all of 'em!!
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 9th, 04, 09:31 AM
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if you want a proven durable setup that you don't have to worry about, take the original engine out and set it in the corner of the garage, and put in a newer block with a factory roller cam and one piece rear crank seal. you can get rebuildable cores fairly cheap, and the actual engine build doesn't really cost any more than an older 350.
order the HOT cam kit from GMPP- part number 12480002 from any dealer and comes with the cam, springs, retainers, 1.6 Crane built GMPP roller rocker arms, and a bunch of other parts- and put a set of Vortecs or Dart Iron Eagles on it with a performer RPM intake, and you will have a smooth, reliable 400 or so horse engine that will get mid teens to low 20's in the fuel economy department (depending on gears and driving habits, of course)and knock down high 12's all day long at the track, and it will look pretty stock if you use all the stock brackets and paint the intake to match the engine.
if you really are willing to spend the coin for the "best" valvetrain parts, then you should consider that you might have as much into the whole engine as you would for all the "best" valvetrain parts for your current engine, and 100,000 mile reliability is a given..

you don't plan sincerity.
you have to make it up on the spot.

wanna hear about 20 years ago when i was too smart to know any better?
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 9th, 04, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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well... i have some really good engine guys that are rebuilding my engine...which is actually in really good condition (it runs strong and has stock bore and crank journals). Also, my 350, like other 60's and 70's engines, is made from REAL cast iron...unlike these new blocks and crate engines that have mixed metal ingredients (cheapo). Also, you said i should just get a new block and build it up since i am willing to pay for quaility parts...Well, i will definitely pay for all the quality parts on my original 69 350 too, but it will be even better because it is made from the REAL iron. And when you rebuild an old engine right...it is practically a brand new engine, but like i have been saying...it has real metal and will also be better because of originality. So can anyone JUST tell me a quality roller valve train setup for my REAL, SOLID, and STRONG 350, which will be much stronger and more durable than any cheap crate engine/block out there! Crate engines and other new blocks are cheap, weak, and overrated!!!! It is sad that we cant make engines out of the real, strong stuff anymore...at least they did back in the muscle car days!

'69 SS 350 Camaro (true X55)<br />350 turbo with shift kit<br />3.55 posi rear end<br />favorite Bible verse...all of 'em!!
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 9th, 04, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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by the way, did you think i was JUST going to buy quality valvetrain parts and thats it? Well, dont worry, i planned on spending the money to buy all quality parts for my 350, not JUST valvetrain stuff.

'69 SS 350 Camaro (true X55)<br />350 turbo with shift kit<br />3.55 posi rear end<br />favorite Bible verse...all of 'em!!
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 9th, 04, 08:14 PM
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hey, you asked a question, i gave an answer on what my experience has told me works well and is also a bargain for what you get.

i personally would take the long term durability of factory engineered parts over good aftermarket stuff- yeah, the aftermarket parts might be good, but GM puts WAAAY more into making the stuff durable to keep waranty claims to a minimum.
as for the "quality" of the newer blocks- even "if" the metal was weaker (which i don't think it is), it is more than compensated for by the fact that quality control gets much better as time goes on- less core shift equals a stronger yet lighter block, which is the foundation of the whole thing. also, the factory roller lifter setup is a lot less complicated than any aftermarket retrofit roller setup out there- and less complicated means less stuff to go wrong. i have heard of the tie bars on aftermarket roller lifters wearing out and allowing the lifter to rotate and dig the wheel into the cam, which is not a good thing. but i've never heard of the factory stuff doing that.
you could also use all the QUALITY Crane built GMPP valvetrain parts i recommended in your old block- you just use a late model timing set and a cam button with aftermarket roller lifters.
then you get a good modern trouble free valvetrain in your awesomely awesome 35 year old block.

you don't plan sincerity.
you have to make it up on the spot.

wanna hear about 20 years ago when i was too smart to know any better?
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 9th, 04, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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first off all, i am sorry...i really didnt mean to be rude. As you know, i am going to use my original engine, instead of storing it. But what sounds like really good idea that you mentioned is for me to buy some GMPP parts for my rebuild knowing they will last, considering the warranty issues you talked about. Other than valvetrain parts what else would be good to buy from them? And how do I do this...just go down to dealer? thanks again...i actually do appreciate your response.

'69 SS 350 Camaro (true X55)<br />350 turbo with shift kit<br />3.55 posi rear end<br />favorite Bible verse...all of 'em!!
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 9th, 04, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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but you have at least admit that when an engine is rebuilt right (mine for example, with stock bore and crank journals...running strong already and never been over-revved) the engine is practically brand new and made of...yep you guessed it...REAL cast iron ! But when i say crate engines and other new blocks are being made of mysterious metals...i didnt really mean GMPP...i am talkin about all the tons of other companies out there that make and sell them. I just prefer not to risk it and mess with them. I just like the fact of knowing exactly what you have by rebuilding an already tested and proven durable engine (like mine), instead of risking it with a crate engine or short or long block or something. But i agree that GMPP probably makes them alright (and if they do...they are definitely part of the few that do now-a-days) thanks again for your response!

'69 SS 350 Camaro (true X55)<br />350 turbo with shift kit<br />3.55 posi rear end<br />favorite Bible verse...all of 'em!!
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 04, 04:04 PM
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i was thinking more along the lines of getting a "seasoned" late model engine out of any 87-93 Caprice cop car or taxi with TBI and rebuilding that. those cars get abused, and often times have over 200,000 miles on them. the 87 Caprice cop car block i used for my Nova build had 140,000 miles on it, yet the cast iron crank only needed a polish to be brought up to spec- and the bores would have cleaned up to perfect forged piston tolerance with only a hone, according to the machinist. but i already had a set of .030 over TRW lightweight forged flat top pistons waiting to get used, so it got bored .030 over.
that block had almost zero core shift, and after beating on it for the last 5 summers with around 400 hp in my Nova, it still runs like the day i first fired it up.
as for where to get the GMPP stuff- yes, any GM dealer will do, but shop around for the best deals. some places will sell the stuff cheaper than others if they have a cool parts manager that is a true "car guy".

you don't plan sincerity.
you have to make it up on the spot.

wanna hear about 20 years ago when i was too smart to know any better?
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 04, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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ok thanks...so i guess i am in pretty good shape with only havin 92K miles on my original 350, right? Ya, i agree, having a seasoned engine is real nice(like my 350 and your nova engine...oya)...rather than breaking in a new, unseasoned one. Thanks for the rebuilding tips...appreciate it.

'69 SS 350 Camaro (true X55)<br />350 turbo with shift kit<br />3.55 posi rear end<br />favorite Bible verse...all of 'em!!
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 12th, 04, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
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i did wonder why you suggested me to take out my original 350 and put in a rebuilt 87-93 engine instead? Why wouldnt i just use the engine I already have? Plus, you said the engine you said i should use are usually pretty abused...again, why wouldnt i just use mine with only 92K on it and stock bore and crank journals...and mine already runs, and is seasoned (of course), and is in good condition. Of course, once i finish rebuilding it, it will have zero miles. Basically, i am wonderin why i would use the more abused engines, instead of my 350 that is in good condition, that has never been abused?

'69 SS 350 Camaro (true X55)<br />350 turbo with shift kit<br />3.55 posi rear end<br />favorite Bible verse...all of 'em!!
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 13th, 04, 05:26 AM
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Most people would store it for the matching numbers. If you do build up another engine and something happens that ruins the block you still have the original, numbers matching block.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 13th, 04, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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i see the logic there...though ruining a block is pretty hard to do unless you overrev or make it a super high hp engine or somethin else. Mine will be a pretty mild 350 with around 300-325 hp at the wheels

'69 SS 350 Camaro (true X55)<br />350 turbo with shift kit<br />3.55 posi rear end<br />favorite Bible verse...all of 'em!!
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 13th, 04, 02:08 PM
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There's a very good chance a mild 350 will last a good long time, but all it takes is one retainer or clip to let go and the block is toast. I saw a new Cavalier 120hp throw a rod through the block. Car was going 65mph on the highway. Using quality parts is a good thing, but thats not a guarantee they won't fail. Something to think about if you want a numbers matching car in the future since numbers matching cars are getting rarer and rarer these days. Good luck

1969 Camaro 350, Trickflow heads, ST-10 4spd, Hotchkis suspension, Baer SS brake kit, moser 12bolt
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