Attn: travis (please) - Team Camaro Tech
Engine General Engine Discussion.

 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 29th, 04, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
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Hey travis, remember this thread ?: https://www.camaros.net/cgi-bin/forum...c;f=4;t=007675

I finally got the 981 spring for my vortec heads, and I've got a quick question if you don't mind. The cam that I'm going to use is about the same lift as yours (.474" with 1.50 / .480" with 1.52). The dampers that come with these springs won't go over the vortec guides; even so it doesn't seem like they would cause a problem. A friend here at work says that I'm going to have a problem if the damper won't go over the guides. He had the damper coil bind on his vortecs and break push rods; I'm not sure if he used 981s, but he had a smaller lift cam. You said that you didn't have your heads cut; did you use the dampers ? If you used them, then I should be OK too. Thanks for your help, Ron.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 29th, 04, 02:39 PM
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I did use the dampers and they fit over my guides just fine However, I will say this. Just yesterday I finished up on the 3rd set of vortecs I have done, and even though the casting numbers and everything was identical, these was definately NOT the same heads. 1 of them was "hencho en mexico" 1 of them will take a 1.46" diameter spring just fine...no way on the other one. The spring pads are different between the 2 heads. The ports look identical, as do the chambers and most everything else, but definately not the spring seats.
I am truly sorry for giving you bad information...but it really did work for me with absolutely NO machine work. You definately don't want the dampners to bind...it will have the same effect as binding the valve springs. I have a brand new comp cams arbor and guide cutter that cuts the guide down for a (IIRC) .530 PC seal, that you are welcome to borrow. I think I even have an extra set of comp cams .530 PC seals too. You could do that, or a local machine shop could trim the guides for you. Around here they charge $40-$50 to do that.

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 30th, 04, 02:11 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks travis; I never doubted you, but dang the bad luck ! My heads are definately 1996 models; I got the complete engine with very low miles. The heads are also casting #10239906. From the beginning they used to say to avoid these, and that the # 12558062 castings were better. I have read where this was later said to be untrue. Are your castings the 062s ? Maybe that is why my guides are a little bigger ? Well, I guess I'll be finding a machine shop now ! I'm glad that I haven't messed with the shims that I bought (1.25" x .814"); I guess that I'll just have the guides cut to that I.D. so that they will fit. Don't sweat it that it didn't work out for me; I'm not. It doesn't seem anything I've done yet on this car was easy ! Thanks for your help, Ron.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 30th, 04, 06:44 AM
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All the vortecs I have worked with have been the 062's, but AFAIK, the only difference between the 906's and 062's is that the 906's are the same heads that was put on an engine, while the 062's are a service replacement head. Have you measured the guides OD? I am curious as to what size they are. Any decent machine shop should be able to cut those guides down for you. Let us know how it turns out.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 04, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
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I finally got the guides cut down on my heads. I took them to a local shop that specializes in racing heads and intakes beacause they are close to where I work. The cost was not bad at $ 50.00, but I was a little disappointed with how they looked.

The bottom of the stock guides measured right at .845" before they were cut. I disassembled and cleaned them up real good before I took them to the shop. I had printed a diagram off of Comp's website that showed a cutter that would cut the guide to .775" which they recommended for use with the 981 springs. I took the heads and one of the springs to them, and told them that I wanted them cut to .775". The guy working there wanted to measure the ID of the spring and damper with a micrometer. He did, and said that they would not have to be cut to .775" for them to work. I told him OK, and left them; I took the spring with me.

I went back to pick them up the next evening, and they were working on them; one had already been cut. I took the spring and stuck it down over the guide; it was pretty tight. The owner of the shop was the one cutting them. He said that since I didn't leave the spring (I was told they didn't need it), that they cut them to .795" like I had requested. I told him that .775" was what I wanted; his guy said that .795 would work.

After telling me that my 981 springs were a POS anyway, he said that he would re-cut them, but that I would have to come back. So I go back the next day; they were smaller alright; some of them measure around .750", and others around .710" ! I paid the guy and left with them.

The springs and dampers don't rub the guides now (of course). I don't guess the diameter of the bottoms of the guides being a little different will be an issue will it ? The retainer and locks keep the spring centered right ?

The shims that I bought have a .814" ID. They fit a little bit loose on the guide now, but they still support the spring OK. Does that sound OK ? Thanks, Ron.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 04, 04:39 AM
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Sounds like it will work just fine. The spring seat itself is what keeps the spring centered...not the guide. On this new set of vortecs I have, the guides are cut to .530 for the pc seals, and then are like .680 the rest of the way down, so I wouldn't worry about it. Now get that thing together and let us know how it runs! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 04, 06:19 AM Thread Starter
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Travis, that sure is what I hoped to hear from you; I was afraid that I paid $ 50.00 to have a good set of heads ruined ! I've got to get the valves cleaned up now (I kept them in the order that they go) and put these things back together. I spent all weekend helping with my body work, so I didn't get to do anything on the heads.

I didn't get the guides cut where the seal goes; I planned to stay with the stock ones. I removed them carefully, and they look to be in good shape, so they should be OK to reuse ? There's probably only about 10,000 miles on these heads.

Thanks for all of your advice with this; it helps me a lot to get to talk with someone who's "been there and done that" !
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 04, 07:26 AM
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As long as the seals didn't get cut or torn when you pulled them over the valve. They will do this sometimes.

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 04, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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I was looking at my heads last night; I don't think that the spring seat on them is going to help any with centering the spring, because they are flat, no recess to them at all. I'm going to be shimming the springs at least .06" anyway, because I bought the 10 degree retainers and +.05" locks for extra retainer to seal clearance.

I looked to see if there was a spring cup available for the 981 springs, to at least keep the shims and spring aligned, but I didn't see one. I'm kind of afraid that these things are going to start moving around on the head at higher RPMs and cause damage. Maybe I worry too much ?
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 04, 04:42 AM
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I used to worry about that too, but I have had 3 different cam company techs tell me that it was not a problem. To date, I have never had any valvetrain trouble running a spring like that, and I have done it on at least 3-4 motors over the years. I never could find any spring cups or locators for a 1.25" spring anyway.

Yeah, you worry too much [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 04, 05:48 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Travis. I've got so many things going on with this car right now that it's driving me nuts ! I've been helping a friend who's doing the body and paint work for me every chance that I get, working on the engine when I can, and worrying about everything the rest of the time ! I'm trying to get the engine done and put back in before the newly painted front end goes back on. I still have the stripped out power steering box to replace too.

The car is gutted right now, so I'll have it hauled back home after the sheetmetal is back on and try to put it back together without scratching anything ! When it's done though, it will be a keeper ! I appreciate your advice and your answers to my questions. Thanks, Ron.
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