The Reverse Grind - Team Camaro Tech
Engine General Engine Discussion.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 02, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Houston, TX USA
Posts: 23
I pulled my 454 and 4-speed Muncie out together to do a rebuild on the engine. I did not replace anything on the transmission since most of the parts were recently replaced by the previous owner. I put it back together and had some grinding going into reverse while in the driveway. I pulled the transmission and clutch out and put in the pilot bearing so that it was flush. I did not know the machine shop pulled the pilot bearing when they turn the crank. After putting it back together, I still have grinding going into reverse. When removing the bottom left hand side transmission bolt, I broke off the end of what appeared to be a switch (no wires were connected to it). Now I can see a spring and a little gear oil dripping slowly. Question 1) why is it grinding going into reverse? The clutch is new. Question 2) what was the switch like device I broke? It is located on the bottom of the transmission on the driverís side. If you need more information, I can email pics. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

------------------
Camaro #3: 69 Camaro Primer Blk w/ 454, 411 posi and M21.
Camaro_Hodges is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 02, 08:56 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Williamstown,PA
Posts: 500
Since reverse is the only gear in a Muncie without a sychronizer, if the clutch doesn't release completely when you push the pedal down it will crunch when you put it in reverse. Check your clutch adjustment. You want 1/2 to 1 inch of free travel when you push the pedal until you feel the throwout bearing engage the diaphragm on the pressure plate. It sounds like you have too much pedal travel before the clutch starts to release. The switch was probably a reverse light switch. It should have been on a bracket of some sort.

------------------
'69 RS Camaro
355 5-speed 4.11
1 2RUN is offline  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 02, 10:58 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,045
Normal. Put into first before reverse and the reverse gear, specifically the cluster will stop turning and allow you to select reverse without grinding.

This isnt a clutch related problem. The spinning input shaft turns the cluster in neutral, and if there is enough drag from the reverse idler, and the fact that it does not totally dis-enguage it will spin and grind everytime.

I always stuff it into first before reverse...no problems.....
chicane67 is offline  
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 02, 03:42 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
Rick
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Accord, NY
Posts: 4,815
I too had that problem when I put in a new clutch and tranny. Chicane's suggestion worked. My old muncie would go in fine from second gear but not with the new upgrades.

------------------
Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv,355,Autogear M22,4.10's and I don't worry about stone chips ( yet ).
RickD is offline  
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 02, 08:34 AM
Senior Tech
Mark
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: LR AR
Posts: 2,372
The disk is not being released fully (incorrect) so it will grind going into reverse. The input shaft and countergears are spinning away while the reverse gear is not rotating so you hear the grinding sound as the gears chip away when you try to mesh them together.

If you put the tranny in a sychronized foreward gear first, it stops the disk/input/counter gear from rotating along with the flywheel/pressure plate (breaks it loose from the rotation) and then when you try to put it in reverse, the reverse gears can mesh without grinding as neither gear is now rotating. This is sort of a band-aid but not uncommon. Might even be a good practice but it should not be a requirement if all is correct.

It did not give you problems before the clutch replacement so now you know where the problem is.

The switch is for the TCS system. Transmission controlled spark is an emissions item. It controlled the vacuum signal to the distributor when the car was in 4th gear. I doubt it was stock on your car as I seem to remember TCS was not used on 69 Camaros. Common on 70 and up perhaps.

-Mark.
stingr69 is offline  
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 02, 10:37 AM
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,045
Let me restate something....

When considering the clutch, its a problem that will most likely not be cured. I do agree, that it shouldnt happen if all is correct, yet it never seems to go away. The drag from the disk is almost impossible to get rid of, so in good practice I just feed it into gear before reverse.
chicane67 is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 02, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Houston, TX USA
Posts: 23
I did not drive the car much (<15 miles) before tearing it apart, thus I do not know if would grind going into reverse. I will try the first before reverse except after "C" trick. As for the switch, I will look at the transmission's numbers to see what year it is so I can replace the switch. Thanks!
Camaro_Hodges is offline  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 02, 02:21 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 538
I have the same problem. I've been trying everything: put it 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th, then reverse and it grinds. I've the adjusted the push rod in, out, re-greased everything and it still happens. It's weird though b/c it doesn't do it at all if the car is cold. It's always after a ride around the block and when the car has is used for awhile. I feel your pain.

------------------
1969, X-44, Export Model, Hugger Orange, Std. Int., BC Rear(soon to be a BT 12 bolt), PDB, GMPP 350HO, M22 Supercase, SSM Lift Bars, AirGap, Holley 750, FlowMaster American Thunder Exhaust, FlowTech Headers

[This message has been edited by Judd (edited 11-19-2002).]
Judd is offline  
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 02, 02:46 PM
Senior Tech
Mark
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: LR AR
Posts: 2,372
If all is adjusted right and you did not hang the tranny by the disk when you did the bench press style tranny install, it is probably the pressure plate that is warped. Hanging the tranny for a rest while getting it to line up with the pilot bushing can cause the disk to bend/**** to the side. That will cause it to drag and not release.

I had a remove and replace the clutch 3 times in one day once. It kept grinding into reverse no matter what I did. The pressure plate looked fine when sitting on the bench but I took the flywheel into the machine shop and we assembled it to the pressure plate and disk and found the diaphram spring was warped when torqued to the flywheel causing an incomplete release. It looked just fine sitting on the bench but it was defective. I replaced the pressure plate and the grinding went away (finaly).

I might also offer that the disk may have been damaged running it without the bushing. It could have run off center enough to trash it. Check for runout of the disk. I bet it is bent.

As for the TCS switch, just screw in a plug and be done with it.

-Mark.

[This message has been edited by stingr69 (edited 11-19-2002).]
stingr69 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome