What block to use w/ 434 c.i. stroker kit???? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 23rd, 03, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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I have been wrestling with the question of whether to go with a 434 c.i. stroker engine and buy a aftermarket block, or just be satisfied with a 412 c.i. or a 4.06. I was going to buy all new internals anyway, and was wanting to do this right the first time, so I think that I will stick to my original plan of the 434 c.i.

Speaking with a number of individuals here, I have been informed that I stock 400 "WOULD" handle a 434 stroker kit, but "WOULD NOT" be reccomended based on the amount of problems that could occur. I have a 400 c.i. bored .30 over w/ torque plate, line bored, and decked just true it up. I would hate to put the storker engine in this just to bust the block or worse damage my internals beyond repair. So I was going to sell the 400 that I have, to get money for a aftermarket block.

Which brings me to my question, where do I go for a aftermarket block that will support a 434 c.i. Should a use a GM bowtie block, a Mo-town block ?spelling? , Merlin or what. I was hoping to keep the cost below $2000. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 23rd, 03, 09:04 AM
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Dart would probably be the ideal one as it has the spread pan rails and raised cam which eliminates any grinding and whatever rod length you prefer, plus no small base circle cam required generally. The disadvantage would be the pan is custom obviously and you need the longer timing chain for the raised cam. The Bow Tie and Motown are nice also. The Motown is right at $2K fully prepped although I'd opt for the un-prepped ones and let the local machinist hone and prep the block to my pistons and rotating assembly. Un-finished they're both in the $1700 range unless you opt for steel main caps on the Dart which boosts it to $2K.

I have not seen either of the Dart or World blocks in person, but a friend had both and thought the Dart was a nicer piece.

Jody


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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 03, 12:32 AM
 
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Dart, in my opinion, would be the way to go. Check with Revolutionary Performance. I believe they are in Hermitage, TN. Knowledgable people and nice to deal with and within 20 miles of you. You could also check with Howe Motorsports in Crossville. The owner's name is Jim. He's a sharp guy and also own's a 1/8 mile track near Crossville.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 03, 07:37 AM
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The Dart block is a very nice piece and if you plan on a little extra abuse go with the steel caps, though I have never seen the iron cap blocks have a problem. Good luck.

SCOTT 69 RS-SS 396 4-SPEED
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 03, 09:31 PM
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I'd talk to these folks first. They have some pretty decent prices n the 434 kits also.

www.ohiocrank.com
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 03, 04:11 AM
 
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I'm running a Dart Iron Eagle block for my 434, so you know who I'd vote for. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

There isn't a provision for an oil filter, so you have to run a remote filter. Right now, I have it mounted on the core support, but this winter I'm going to relocate it to the bottom side of the core support. Hmmm, I wonder where I got that idea?
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old Jun 11th, 09, 07:30 PM
 
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Re: What block to use w/ 434 c.i. stroker kit????

Maybe I am just nieve but I don't understand the problem with using a factory cast 400 block. I have a 511 casting block that I intend to use to make the 434 stroker a 440 stroker by boring it to .060 oversize. 4.00 inch stroke crank and 6.00inch H beam rods. I understand that there are clearance issues, but it will go together just fine and the 511 casting block was a little heavier duty that say, a 509 or 518 casting with 2 bolt mains. I do realise that a custom block is allways a great way to go, but a cast block will work just fine I would think.

Thoughts??
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old Jun 11th, 09, 09:04 PM
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Re: What block to use w/ 434 c.i. stroker kit????

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT Coleman View Post
Maybe I am just nieve but I don't understand the problem with using a factory cast 400 block. I have a 511 casting block that I intend to use to make the 434 stroker a 440 stroker by boring it to .060 oversize. 4.00 inch stroke crank and 6.00inch H beam rods. I understand that there are clearance issues, but it will go together just fine and the 511 casting block was a little heavier duty that say, a 509 or 518 casting with 2 bolt mains. I do realise that a custom block is allways a great way to go, but a cast block will work just fine I would think.

Thoughts??

wow, you searched deep for this one............... I still wouldn't do a 434 from a stock 400 block, there isn't a good machine shop I know of that would recommend it. However, it has been done before, so I wish you luck with your build.
Jody


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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old Jun 11th, 09, 09:47 PM
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Re: What block to use w/ 434 c.i. stroker kit????

This is an oldie... What are the down sides if any of the 400's siamese bores with no water passages between them?

...Dennis

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old Jun 11th, 09, 10:03 PM
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Re: What block to use w/ 434 c.i. stroker kit????

Actually I believe the 509 casting, while only a 2 bolt, is the most highly sought after of the 400 factory blocks. The reason are the 511 had less material in it's thinner main webs. These were beefed up in the 509 block. Also the 509 was a high nickel block, I don't believe the 511 or 817 were. Not sure on the 817. Some 511 replacement blocks were actually only 2 bolt, although rare, they would still have the thinner webbing. Another member reported recently that his machinist showed him the 509 block was 10 pounds heavier than the 511, that's significant. Many say the ultimate 400 factory build is a 509 block with splayed caps. But I feel that splayed caps would be a waste of $$ on a factory block. First because they have stepped registers and second you don't need to go splayed until you are making enough power that you should already be looking at an after market block. That's why i plugged my splayed holes and skipped the align bore, just went studded 2 bolt with the factory caps. They'll be good for the HP that the factory block is is rated for. Not going to spray it ever.

Bottom line though is going beyond .040 is a risk, hopefully you'll sonic check it first. Also the factory blocks have much thinner decks, which you'll need to cut get your quench right, so that makes it even thinner and these decks are known to crack. They've also got thinner cylinder walls. Also not all 400 factory blocks have the same number of coolant holes, make sure you've got the large hole between the center two cylinders on the exhaust side of the deck.

A 434 may be able to be made to fit, but anything beyond 550 hp you should start looking at an aftermarket block in most people's opinion. I've got a 509 block ready to go together, but I'm struggling if it would be wise to try to go 420 cid with it evn though it's short filled, decks plugged, studded, clearanced, ect.

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 09, 06:26 PM
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Re: What block to use w/ 434 c.i. stroker kit????

Dad's 434 is a Dart block.

68 Camaro, 555 big block, Doug Nash 5-speed, 3.54 gear.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 09, 07:25 PM
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Re: What block to use w/ 434 c.i. stroker kit????

Dart Little m. The Dart special HP blck also from dart is good too but may only be good up to 600 HP. and with a 434 you may eventually top that.

DOnt for get the machine work adds up fast when you get to this many cubes. YOu may also want to consider a relocated cam.

Stock Block = waste of money over 408 CI. The money you will sink into the block over a Dart is simply bad economics
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 09, 08:10 PM
 
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Re: What block to use w/ 434 c.i. stroker kit????

I HAVE to say that you can build a 496 BB probably way cheaper than a 434 SB but it will be a BB!

I know Ohio Crankshaft's and S-O-M's 496 BB price's are down the line, but you will have to double-check everything.

And as stupid as this sound's, I wish NOW I'd went w/ a 588"er and got it out of my system. But live and learn....

4.625" b x 4.375" s = 588" in a Merlin III 9.8" deck block!

pdq67



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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old Jun 12th, 09, 09:43 PM
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Re: What block to use w/ 434 c.i. stroker kit????

After talking to a number of guys who've stroked 400 SB most seem to feel 3.80 stroke is about the most that makes sense to stuff in a stock block. After that it starts to become a lot more work and $$$ that probably would be better spent on a better after market block. I still may try a Callies 420 rotating group though at 3.875.

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