700r4 in 69 RS? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 18th, 01, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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Rodney
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Banner,Ky,USA
Posts: 137
Question

Ok guys I saw the previous post but, I already have a newly rebuilt 700r4 that is supposed to be built pretty good(Vette servo, .460 boost pump, 10" conv.) and need to know what I need to get it to work in my 69 RS w/383(400+hp/400+tq)and a 350t.

I read somewhere that I can just move the crossmember back and drill one more hole and use the original back hole. Is this true?

Can I use a driveshaft from a 3rd gen.? I am pretty sure that I have an aluminum one in my parts bin. I don't want to have a driveshaft shortened unless I have to(limited resources and funds)

Where can I get the TV bracket for a Carter/Edelbroc Carb?

What do I do about the speedometer? If I am not mistaken, isn't the 700 used with an electric speedometer cable setup? Does somebody make an adapter?

I know that I can get the shifter detent and conversion gear indicator lense from classic or one of those companies. I just really need the technical ?'s answered. All help is appreciated and needed.

I saw what everybody was saying about the 1-2 ratio difference but this car will just be a weekend cruiser/weekend show/occasional weekend drag stip car. With the 3.73 rears, all I am really worried about is that OD. Thanks again


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69 RS Camaro (383,350t,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 01, 07:07 AM
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Diveshaft from a 3rd gen won't work. I had one laying around that from a IROC that we took the TPI out of, so I tried it just for the heck of it. I used a Spectre adjustable throttle cable kickdown pn#2428. I moved my crossmember back, drilled new holes in frame. I don't know about the speedo cable, never tried to hook mine up. Took me about 4 hours by myself to perform the swap.

------------------
68 468 700R4, and here it is;
mutert23
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 01, 08:18 AM
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There is a 700R4 tailhousing that has a mounting boss on it. This, a TH400 crossmember modified for pan clearance on the passengers side and relocated bolt holes works good.

The 700R4's come with mechanical speedo drives that will work fine. Both parts were used on some 80's Caprice's.

The TV cable linkage adjustment is critical, I've modified factory brackets but I run Q-jet. It has to be just right.
The torque converter clutch should also be hooked up.


TTFN
Mat
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 01, 09:10 AM
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Robert
 
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Just to add to Mat. There are 2 different speedo gear housings depending on which gears you need. You can get the gears and the housing from your GM dealer about as cheap as anywhere. There's also an o-ring you'll need that doesn't come with the new housing.

------------------
Robert

'69 getting better every day... (every pay day)
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 01, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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Rodney
 
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So I need to look at the tailhousing to see if it has a mounting boss. It has a new tailhousing and I hope it is the one I need.

I can't use the crossmember for the 350? I know that I can buy a 400 crossmember but was hoping to save a little there. And just move it back with new holes in the sub-frame?

I can change the speedometer unit in the trans? And I am going to get one of the torque convertor wiring kits.

Mark M., what was different with the driveshaft that it wouldn't work?

Thanks guys

------------------
69 RS Camaro (383,350t,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 01, 12:28 PM
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The lenghts of the driveshafts were different, it's been a couple years so I don't even know if it was to long or to short, have you tried yours yet? Also I used my original crossmember, my car had a 6 cyl. with 3 speed stick, then I put a TH-350 in it, and then the 700. I wasn't sure about the speedo cable, but now I'll try to hook mine up, thanks.

------------------
68 468 700R4, and here it is;
mutert23
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 01, 02:56 PM
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Jags That Run has some good swap info available. Including which tailshaft to use. Also SHIFTWORKS has the console shifter kit and many suppliers will sell you one.

The turbo350 crossmember may work. It did on my elcamino, but I realize that elky frame is a lot different. The 700 will mount to the 350 mount & crossmember. As long as the crossmember is wide enuff it should work on the camaro.
The 700 is longer than a 350 so the drive shaft does need to be shortened.
the tranny cooling lines of a 700 are in almost the same exact location as the 350.
Hope this helps some.

------------------
Rick Schaefer
72 El Camino
TPI350/700r4

68 Camaro
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 01, 04:32 PM
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Robert
 
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wildkatz

The trans mount on mine was not on what I would call the tail shaft but directly behind the pan on the main case. Previous post indicate that you would need a TH400 x-member to modify...$40.00 I used a custom aftermarket $140.00. Shorten drive shaft 3", balance with new u-joints $100.00. Speedo gears $18.00 for both. Speedo gear housing $35.00. TV cable and bracket on intake around $40.00. Please... Please check your flex plate for warping, dishing, or cracking this is a $40.00 item that cost me 3 hours of labor. Good luck.






------------------
Robert

'69 getting better every day... (every pay day)
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 01, 04:45 AM
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I placed a 350 crossmember on a 700-R4 and it will work. Using the mounting pad directly behind the pan, so you will not need the special tailhousing and 400 crossmember, like I used. You may need to drill mounting holes in the frame. The 700-R4 pad is 1.75" further back than the TH350.

You may need to elongate the mounting holes slightly to clear the pan and you will need to remove the crossmember to drop the pan.

Does anyone know how the wiring for the torque converter works? I'm too cheap to pay the big $$ for some wires and switches.


TTFN
Mat
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 01, 05:05 AM Thread Starter
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Rodney
 
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Location: Banner,Ky,USA
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Mat I found a wiring schematic at www.smokemup.com/tech/transmission/700r4/700r4.cfm I hope this helps.

I am still gathering info, thanks and keep the responses coming

------------------
69 RS Camaro (383,350t,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 21st, 01, 12:35 PM
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Thanks for the info. I'm currently planning on using the existing 4th clutch presssure switch in the circuit to automatically lock up in 4 th and avoid the manual lock up.

Also, FYI. I am using the stock shifter linkages, with a modified cable to trans pan mount. It shifts fine, I just can't manually shift down to 1 st gear.


TTFN
Mat
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Jan 22nd, 01, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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Rodney
 
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Location: Banner,Ky,USA
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I emailed www.700r4.com yesterday about their 69 Camaro conversion and this was the reply I got
__________________________________________

We have everything you would need to install a Th-700R4 into your Camaro. Prices as follows;

Th-700R4 (4L60) transmission with a heavy duty torque converter is $1020.00. We use nothing but late model (1988 to 1993) cores. Then perform a blueprint overhaul using only quality brand name components like Raybestos, Alto, Borg Warner, Torrington, Delco Remy etc. Every transmission features a new pump hardened steel pump rotor and vanes, hardened steel guide rings, double and stronger (high rpm operation) slider springs, H.D. Sprag, output Planetary with hardened ring gear and H.D. Pinion gears, New bushings (doubled in most major areas), Custom made (to our specs) one piece teflon seals, high temperature center seal, custom built servo assembly (our design), larger boost valves (both the main and the low/reverse), special accumulators (our design), custom shift calibration (our specification), nine frictions and steels in the 3/4 clutch pack with a special backing plate, special band anchoring just to name a few things. We perform over 40 upgrades and modifications for increased durability and strength. The torque converter features a Kevlar friction, largest Lux dampening assembly available, torrington bearing to replace the thrust washer, largest available sprag, new steel pump drive bushing, brazed turbine vanes and the assembly is precision balanced for smooth operation. These converters are available in 1800 or 2200 stall speeds at the above price.

T.V. (throttle valve) cable adapter system for your carburetor is $42.00. This cable controls all pressure manufacture and is the major outside influence on shift timing and feel. The importance of getting this system calibrated for your vehicle cannot be overstated. While other companies tell you it's important, we offer the parts and easy to follow instructions on how to establish this relationship correctly. All of our transmissions come with illustrated instructions on this critical set up.

Zero to 300 PSI gauge with six foot hose and close 90 degree fitting is $28.00. This is a basic diagnostic tool that we require be installed during the start up and test driving to confirm the pressures are the same as when the transmission left our test stand.

Dip stick is $22.00. This is a new General Motors unit that will fit your application.
Inspection cover (dust shield) is $22.00.

Speedometer calibration gear set is $44.00. This is all new Delco parts and is everything except the speedometer cable and the gauge. We will need your tire size and rear end ratio to accomplish this. When you get the transmission installed, all you will need to do is screw the speedometer cable onto the transmission drive gears and your speedometer should be correct! If you are planning to run electronic gauges, there is no charge. These transmissions already have electronic speed sensors built in that will interface with the after market gauges.

Brake pedal switch that will disable the converter lock up whenever you press on the brakes. This feature will prevent you from killing the engine if you should skid the rear tires while braking. This switch will replace the old one under the dash and costs $12.00.

Plug in wiring harness for connecting from the transmission to the brake light disconnect switch or relay. Cost is $16.00.

Your existing cooling lines will hook right up to the Th-700R4 fittings as they are the same 5/16" inverted flare. To line up the lines to their new locations you will have to bend them a little bit. This is a simple matter as long as you don't get too enthusiastic during the bending process. Take the time to inspect the lines for any restrictions as too little flow volume is the same as inadequate cooling capacity!

Your present Th-350 drive shaft yoke will work just fine. The drive shaft will need to be shortened and balanced which costs $75.00 here locally and can be done in a couple of hours at your local drive shaft service company.

Custom built cross member to allow you to bolt this transmission right into your car without any modification whatsoever. No cutting, drilling or welding. It comes with a new rubber insulated transmission mount for $149.00.

Console shifter conversion kit will allow you to convert your factory installed console shifter to a seven position shifter to correctly operate one of these overdrive automatic transmissions. This kit comes with a new lens for a factory appearance along with a new laser cut, hardened steel detent plate to provide the proper stops at each gear selection and the necessary hardware to properly mount the cable. This kit is $85.00.

By installing one of these overdrives, you should see an increase in fuel economy of around 40%. This has been quite predictable. The lower sound level and reduced vibration are also very noticeable.

To give you an absolute example of the effect it will have, lets just say you have your car out on the highway right now and you are in third gear with the tach reading 3000 RPMs. If you could magically install a Th-700R4, then let it go into overdrive fourth gear, your RPMs would drop to 2100!

Installing one of these modern overdrives is widely being acknowledged as a great way to not only improve the overall performance of the vehicle but also is one of the few items you can install on your car that will increase the value above its cost and also make the vehicle far more sellable.

In my opinion, installing a modern overdrive transmission is the best upgrade you can do to your vehicle. It will have a greater positive overall effect on your street drive ability than any other component you could upgrade. I know this is a strong statement but the responses from customers over the last 5 years that we have been doing these conversions convinces me that it's true.

Our company has a stated goal of providing the finest transmissions available anywhere at any price, then provide technical support to these customers from the purchase, through the installation, test driving and any necessary adjustments required. Our transmissions warranty starts when the customer and our company, agree the installation has been completed correctly, the transmissions needs are properly provided for and it is working correctly in the vehicle. This requires a co-operative effort from both parties but has resulted in an extremely low failure rate from these wonderful but complex transmissions. Our warranty covers defective parts or workmanship for a period of one year form this date of agreement.

We have all these items in stock and can ship your order very quickly. Hope this provides the information you were looking for. If something was overlooked, please feel free to ask further questions. Prior to shipment, all transmissions are pre tested on our in house test facility to insure correct operation and operating pressures.

We accept all major credit cards, money orders, cashiers checks, bank transfers or personal checks from southern CA.

Our normal office hours are from 8 a.m. until 5 p.m. Monday through Friday PST.

Sincerely

Steve Holmes
Bow Tie Overdrive

e-mail address: [email protected]
Telephone: (760) 947-5240
FAX number: (760) 948-0196
Web site: http://www.700r4.com
_________________________________________

I will probably be going thru them for all my parts. I don't need the tranny, but looks like I may get everything else from them. I hope this helps everybody who is thinking about this swap. I like the convenience of going thru one company for all the parts I need and their prices look pretty reasonable.

Thanks

------------------
69 RS Camaro (383,350t,12-bolt w/3.73s)
79 WS6 Trans Am (406SBC,factory 4-spd,3.23 posi)
87 GTA Pace Car Clone (350TPI,700r4,140k miles)
97 Bonneville SSE 40th Anniv. (3800 V-6, Power Everything, The little woman's car)
wildkatz is offline  
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