Muncie and/or hurst shifter trouble. please HELP - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 02, 01:49 AM Thread Starter
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Marc
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 546
hi,
there is an article in the new CHP issue about installing a hurst shifter on a Muncie. I have to rebuilt my M21 this winter, i bought a complete rebuilt kit unit. there is also a strange problem with the Muncie and i recently better understood what is going wrong (i faced this 3 times) : when downshifting rapidly from 3 to 2 , it is possible to do it wrong and avoid the neutral point, engaging the second gear while the third gear is still in gear. That result in a 2 gears the same time engagement, and the transmission stays in second gear, it becomes then impossible to shift . The thing i have to do to 'repair it' is raising the car and from under it i smash with a rod agains the attach points of the shifter to the linkage and try to move the 1/2 rod or the 3/4 rod linkage again to neutral position. it is sometimes very hard to move and i really have to bang on it. with a hammer or something. when it is again on neutral, it is ok and i can shift again.

I guess the possibility of engaging a "false" second gear is a shifter problem. it happened 3 times so now i feel better what goes wrong when it happen : and it is obviously like enganging a "false" gear that 'd lay right between the 4 and the 2 . you really feel it with the shifter when driving. if you engange that "false" gear, you surely jam the tranny in second gear. It is always in second gear that it jams.
Anyway i want to fix that problem when i 'll restore the tranny. I personnely think it is a shifter problem. do you know how to fix it? CHF talks about shifter adjusting bolts but they don't explain how. Oh yes : i already have a hurst shifter installed.

Also about the article in CHP : they say the Hurst shifter nylon bushing kits reduce noises. i though of letting a friend custom built bronze bushings while restoring the tranny and shifter unit. Do you think bronze bushing isn't a good idea? about noises in the tranny .... I uses the car for fun in the summer, alos sometimes as a daily driver. but i surely don't race the car.

Please tell me a lot about it

Thanks

Marc
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 02, 02:46 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Columbia, SC
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Marc, sounds like a shifter problem, adjust it first, if that does not help, then it may be worn out.


This is from the Hurst web site:

Q. What is the proper way to adjust my Hurst four speed shifter?

A. There is a 1/4 inch hole at the bottom of the Hurst mechanism that runs through all three levers. This is called the neutral alignment hole. To ensure proper adjustment, run the shifter from first into second and then back to neutral. Insert the neutral alignment pin (or a 1/4 inch drill bit) into the neutral alignment hole. If the 1-2 lever interferes with the smooth insertion of the alignment pin, remove the 1-2 linkage rod from the shifter and thread the adjuster button either in or out to eliminate the interference. Repeat this procedure with the 3-4 lever and reverse. To adjust the stop bolts, back the bolts out of the shifter frame until only a few threads remain. Push the stick firmly into third gear and hold. Screw in the stop bolt until contact is made. Release the stick and back the stop bolt out one turn and tighten the jamnut. Push the stick into fourth gear and repeat the procedure.
------------------------------------

Hurst also makes a bushing kit with steel bushings to replace the nylon, called Pit Pak.

Hope this helps,
Joe

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 02, 05:13 AM
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Location: Grand Ledge, MI 48837 USA
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I'll assume you are dealing with a 69. It really sounds like a shifter problem. Hurst will completely rebuild it for $100 +/-. Also, make sure you have the correct shifter bracket/plate and shift rods. You may be getting things jambed up because of an alignment problem. When I got my 69, it shifted funny and would get hung-up once in a while. I discovered that it had the correct hurst shifter but Chrysler shift rods
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 02, 12:50 PM
 
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I have run into this a few times before when customers have complained about the same things. I have found it to be adjustment AND rod related. If not adjusted correctly, when shifting you are trying to force two sliders around at the same time and this creates what you would 'feel' as more resistance in the lever, but not very much. At this point, with the rods loaded more than what would be the normal amount, the rods tend to flex/bend which only adds to the adjustment problem.

My recommendation is to take you time and adjust it per instruction (if worn you might want to thing about rebuilding it, but theres really nothing to rebuild in the shifter itself), but remember, this isnt an exact adjustment, but after the second or third adjustment you should find the "sweet spot" that your transmission likes.

Kurt 6325 has brought up a very good point. Check which part numbers are on the linkage parts you have. I have even seen new kits shipped with the wrong shift levers and/or rods from the factory.

And go with the 'Pit Pak' bushings, all the work is already done for you.....install and use.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 02, 04:32 PM
 
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Yes, use the 1/4" rod thing...

I found out that mine through the years just needed a good old-fashioned cleaning and lubed to work fine!! It's a pain to do but really helped mine when it was on the road.

Plus, I really never jambed mine like a lot of the guy's used ta do which I figure helped it live a good life. pdq67



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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 11th, 02, 02:07 AM
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Steve
 
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If you are not using a factory console you may way to consider changing to a Hurst super shifter. Doesn't work with a console and I would be wary of using it with other than stock bucket seats.

Steve
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 11th, 02, 02:43 AM Thread Starter
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Marc
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 546
thank you ! i appreciate .
i still have one question . what do you think of the steel bushings vs the nylon ones? about vibrations , noise and precision ,... and all the other things you think about.

Also what is that Hurst super shifter? i don't have a console and have stock seats.

Marc
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 11th, 02, 03:14 AM
 
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If the shifter needs to be rebuilt Year One has a hurst rebuild service for $69.00 plus $18.00 s+H . GOOD LUCK
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 11th, 02, 07:17 AM
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Marc,

Yes, use the steel bushings. I have not seen any disadvantage with them.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 11th, 02, 11:25 AM
 
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I'm with Joe. There's no disadvantage to a properly working mechanical device that doesnt need to have parts replaced, the steel bushings will out live 5 sets of the plastic ones.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 02, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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Marc
 
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Location: Belgium
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thank you all. i think you told me all i need to know.
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