327 Oil consumption problem! - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Jul 25th, 03, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hi guys, I guess I'll start off 1st by giving my engine specs. It's a 66 327 bored .030, crank turned .010/.010,new rod and main bearings,rods were machined for full floating wrist pins,arp rod and main bolts,miloden windage tray,keith black hypers(.100 dome,10.5 to 1 comp. ratio),comp solid cam(282S-10), comp solid lifters,true roller timing chain, new trick flow cylinder heads with crane roller rockers/trickflow push rods,eldebrock air gap,holley 750 carb.,sealed power moly rings, hv oil pump and HEI. The engine has about 350 miles on it since build up. The engine runs very well. Now for the problem. For some reason I'm seeing oil residue on the back of the car(69 Camaro). Along the rear bumper, rear valence and rear spoiler etc. pretty much the rear of the car. The droplets appear to be clean oil, small mists' of oil kinda like someone using a spray bottle and standing 15 ft. away from the rear of the car and spraying the backend. I did notice some light blue puffs of smoke from the right rear exhaust pipe when under hard acceleration and between shifts(4speed). The engine has dropped around 2.5 quarts of oil in this 350 or so miles. I pulled the valve cover to inspect the valve's for valve stem seals. It appears to have seals even though it's rather hard to see all of them. The plugs are burning pretty normal. The valve cover's are fine and the pcv system is working normal with no oil sucking into the pcv valve hose. Had this happen on a 400 small block. I was sucking oil due to no baffeling in the valve cover. Not the issue here. I pulled the intake this week and noticed some oil residue in the intake runners even though the heads, intake, and gaskets etc. are all new. I installed new gaskets and actually used a small amount of permatex around the intake runners this time between the head and gasket and between the intake and gasket and the problem still remains after driving the car yesterday. The droplets reappeared. I guess I'm asking for suggestions if anyone has ever ran into this problem with the intake sealing against the head and if so what should I do. And secondly, I am wondering if this is all of my problem. Not sure why the droplets appear to be clean oil when in all actuality the oil is coming down through the exhaust system and the exh. system I'm sure isnthat clean. No leaks under the vehicle what so ever. Engine, tranny and rear are all newly rebuilt and clean as a pin underneath. Keep the car in garage and no drops underneath anywhere. Thanks guys, I know the post is long, but not sure what to do next. There must be a problem with the angularity of the two mating surfaces of the heads and intake. Just wondering if someone has ever ran into this issue and what they done about it. Thanks and have a great weekend. [img]graemlins/clonk.gif[/img]
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Jul 25th, 03, 01:43 PM
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Have the Block (deck) and/or Heads been milled?
If so was the intake milled to allow for this?

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Jul 25th, 03, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hey Vintage 68, as far as the block, no deck work was done and all specs. as far as bore and crank were all original leaving me to believe that the block had never been rebuilt prior to my possesion. As far as the heads, they were fresh out of the box from Summit racing.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Jul 25th, 03, 05:58 PM
 
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OK, generally oil going through the motor DOESN'T leave nice little dots all over everything so that is that!! BUT the pipes will make a nice, (He, He!!), black finger when checked......

Please re-examine your tranny fill tube and cap, both the front and rear crank seals for any type of wetness, and finally the valve covers b/c thats about all there is, period!!

And other then maybe a leaking P/S unit, I can't help you.

AND I say this after driving alotta leaking, smoking cars that I have ended up doing shade-tree overhaul jobs on...

And I have read and seen where one oil drop every 20 to 30 feet or so at road speed is like a quart eveery 300 or so miles!!!

BUT generally the bottom of the car WILL BE COVERED when as much oil as you are talking about is missing...

pdq67



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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Jul 25th, 03, 06:32 PM
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Do you have the oil separator in the lifter valley? We had a 283 use a lot of oil and it turned out to be sucking it out through the PCV that was installed in the old road draft tube hole without a baffle in the valley.

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 03, 04:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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onova, the 66 model PCV set up was originally under the intake manifold. I deleted the old set up and now have it set up like the later model V8's coming from the valve cover to the base of the carb. I have a friend who had a 340 mopar doing something similar as my 327. He pulled the intake and also found his intake runners wet from oil. He said he couldn't remember what he did to correct the problem. I believe he doubled up on intake gaskets as a final fix, but he described the oil spots on the rear of the car and rear valence just as my engine. I know it sounds really weird describing the clean oil spots, but the car is dry underneath leaving me to believe it's coming from the exhaust. Especially the amount of oil usage that I have seen. I plan on crawling under the car today and doing a thorough inspection. Thanks for the replies thus far though guys!!!!!!!!! Danny [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Jul 26th, 03, 05:20 AM
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Food for thought!! Droplets of oil up as high as the spoiler and clean not black are not coming from the exhaust IMO. I had a rich idle before that spit black soot mixed with moisture out the pipes when the engine was cold and they went 2 feet behing the car and straight to the ground. Also for oil to get out the pipes without burning there would be so much of it going through the combustion chamber I don't see how the car would run properly.

Where does your road draft tube go? How did you seal it off it you removed it? I know that if that were the leak source there should be a film under the car. Same with almost any other place oil would leak from too.

Maybe it's not burning or leaking and you just didn't have the right amount of oil in it to begin with or the dip stick is not correct. I could see it very easy to put 5qts in and knowing it holds 5 qts and not check the dip stick after doing so!! Then when you finally check it, it's low because it's the wrong dip stick. Getting back to the residue on the spoiler and bumper, could you have parked with the back end under a tree? Olive trees drip an oil not sap and so do many others.

If a resolve isn't visible it's time to re-inact the crime so to speak. Clean the car up removing any visible oil spatter. Fill the crank case up with fresh oil and check the level just to be sure, jot down the mileage on the odometer and start driving. Every 50 miles check for residue and check the oil.

Good Luck,

...Dennis

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 03, 07:57 AM
 
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Dennis,

Can you put some of that "Black light" tattle tale leak detector stuff in oil like they use for A/C leak detection?? pdq67



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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 03, 09:08 AM
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Don't know if it's the same but there is something you can put in oil also.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 03, 04:18 AM
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That would be my suggestion, rather than to guess where its coming from. Get some leak detector in the oil and 'black light' it later to find out for sure. Saves time.......

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 03, 10:25 AM
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I had a rear main seal go out and believe it or not the bottom of the car was not too bad, the oil seemed to collect under the spoiler like you describe. Look for cooked oil on the exhaust pipes - that was the giveaway for me.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Jul 30th, 03, 02:44 AM
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I too had a rear main go on my truck. My clue also was all the droplets on the back tailgate.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 03, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all of the replies guys. I am still troubleshooting the key areas of potential (clean) oil, tranny fluid leaks. Appears that I do have a rear seal leak in the tranny but nothing noticeable with the engine. Still diagnosing the problem and I do appreciate everyone's inputs. You guys have a great weekend!!!!!! [img]graemlins/waving.gif[/img]
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 03, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pdq67:
Dennis,

Can you put some of that "Black light" tattle tale leak detector stuff in oil like they use for A/C leak detection?? pdq67
Yes. And I'd think it best to check right away then frequintly to keep from getting confused with the fan blowing the glow all around. My oil goes up in smoke/fumes from the valve cover breathers. What a light show that would be.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 03, 07:52 AM
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I had the same clear droplets on my spoiler and found my oil pressure sending unit leaking like a sieve. It dripped down along the flywheel cover and made it look like it was the rear main seal, which I had put in new last year. I had a new intake and carb installed last week and put in new copper oil pressure line to my guage and new connection on the block and now I need to clean off the underside as that oil was burning across my pipes and mufflers and then uplifting across the back panel area. Good luck
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