6Speed conversion from PG - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 8th, 00, 04:51 AM Thread Starter
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now that I have this 4speed + thing going on. I saw a add in the paper for a BorgWarner T6 6speed trans from a 99camaro for sale. has anyone hooked one of these up, and would it be similar to the M4 Speeds with linkage and clutch work and such.

also does anyone know the spline count on the tailshaft...

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 8th, 00, 04:23 PM
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I am the bearer of bad news. DO NOT buy that T56. It will not work. You need a T56 from 94-97 camaro/firebird. The newer (98 +) is out of an LS1 car, and has an input shaft that is almost an inch longer, plus the bellhousing pattern is different. So find your self a 94 to 97 T56, and get everything you can from the car. Do you have a 86 or newer block? if so, you are lucky, if not you MUST have a custom flywheel, Centerforce makes it. then you will need to make a bracket that adapts the Hydraulic clutch to the firewall at a 21 degree angle, you need a custom crossmember, the shifter needs to be 2" back, you need a pedal spacer for the clutch actuator, and you need to shorten the driveshaft. I shortened my old turbo 400 one, and it has the same splines. If you want REALLY detailed instructions i'll walk you through it when you are at that point. I've done it myself.

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1968 RS/SS Camaro w/ 94 vette LT-1 and T56 six speed, Cal-Tracs, Baer 12" crossdrilled brakes 17" rims, ect....
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 00, 05:30 AM
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Some of what you read above is good information but some of it I disagree with..
For starters, my understanding is that the T56 uses the same yoke as a turbo 350-not the Th400. Also it is NOT necessary to buy a Centerforce flywheel even though the Centerforce sales people will tell you so. Save yourself some green and get a 153 tooth manual trans flywheel from a 305 5 speed car. This must be out of an '83-'86 model car. The '87s went to a one piece rear seal and the bolt pattern is different. This flywheel will work as I am running it in my 383/6 speed car. No custom balance, no adapters, nothing but a straight bolt in. You will need to switch starters if you are running a 168 tooth starter now. All else in regards to custom cross member and angled bracket to hold the cluth master cylinder is true. You will have major issues with speedometer connection. Several ways to go about it. JTR (Jaguars that run) can modify your tailshaft for about $295.00! (YIPES!) or you can run an Auto Meter Electronic speedo that will connect to your trans directly. IF you go route two you will lose the factory look in your car but it is much cheaper than the alternative. Shifter location will be about 4 inches further back than it is now (1st gen car anyway). You can purchase an after market tail shaft that will move the shifter point forward about two inches and then you can use an extender on the shift rod to move it the additional 2 inches. Still a very costly idea. Lots of money involved in this. For what I have spent, if I had to do it over again, I would be running a Richmond 5 speed!
Big time and money saver after the initial cost of the trans itself. Good luck.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 00, 08:29 AM
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I have never regreted the swap to a T-56. Having the extra over drive give you the room to run a strip gear on the street. The Richmond may be a nice piece, but it still a 5 speed. Until a better six comes along, I cannot think of a better transmission.

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Mark

1992 Firebird 355/Six Speed
1991 RS 350 / 700-R4
1987 Toyota Pickup 383 / 500 + HP 10.963 @ 119.95 Slicks / 11.997 @ 114.23 Radials
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 00, 10:50 AM
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I disagree with Mark. A 5-speed is just a 5-speed? Give me a break! The sixth speed on a T-56 is good for nothing other than cruising on the highway.

The question to me is: Which tranny has the optimal gear spacing for the car's intended purpose?

The Richmond is not an overdrive tranny. Fifth gear is 1:1. Therefore, the first four gears of a Richmond are available for power multiplication. With the Richmond, you eliminate the need for the overdrive by using a low rear gear. Power multiplication is not hurt because of the very low gear ratios the Richmond uses for the first couple of gears. IMO, the Richmond is a great tranny for a street rod, and it is practically a bolt in.

The T-56 is a trick tranny, but what extra does it give you? Basically the only advantage I see is a little lower final drive ratio. This advantage, however, comes at a price, both in terms of dollars and installation pain-in-the-butt factor. Remember that in OD, the tranny provides no torque multiplication, so you better make a lot of torque if you want to go fast.


[This message has been edited by gheatly (edited 11-10-2000).]
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 00, 02:05 PM
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Hey Gheatly, what about the Richmond Six speed?

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"If ya can't get yourself a 10, the least you can do is *uck 5 2's!"-Dolemite
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 00, 02:56 PM
 
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I was just going to say Richmond six speed.

Go69, are you using a balance plate with your 305 flywheel or is your engine internally balanced??? Just curious, thats all.

Hey David, Whats YHO??? pdq67





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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 00, 05:32 PM
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I know dont believe everything you read, but in the Aug. 2000 CHP, there was an article on T56 swapping. Go69's response mentioned the speedo issue, Sallee Chevrolet offers an aftermarket T56 intended for a T5 swap out, it offers the Viper tailshaft with a mechanical speedo gear. It even incorporates the mechanical clutch assemblies.
ive thought about this one as an alternative. i plan on researching it more before buying.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 00, 07:46 PM
 
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I have done the T-56 swap and it was not easy for me. The cross member and hydraulic clutch gave me problems but the tranny is finally in! Not that I am disappointed in the T-56, it's just that I could have put in a new Tremec TKO 5 speed for the same amount of money I spent on a used T-56, however it is a good, solid rebuilt T-56. CarlC and I were both deciding on trannies at the same time and we both went separate ways, he with the TKO and me with the T-56. His install went smoothly and that TKO is solid, a very beefy piece. It has a 31 spline output shaft I think which is far superior to the T-56's weak 27 splines. If anything will fail on the T-56 it will most likely be the output shaft.
Talk to CarlC if your are interested in the TKO. I think he has been having some internet access problems but that should not last for more than a week or so.

Joseph
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 00, 11:54 PM
 
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I have a Richmand 5 speed trans drops right in and no mods and very tuff trans.If you want to go that way for a stock looking in the car.But in order for this tranny to shift like butter you have to do some very simple mods inside the case very easy to do.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 11th, 00, 01:49 PM
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Dale - tell me more on these mods to the Richmond 5 speed. I have one in my car and I'm curious what changes you made and what effect they had.



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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed; '99 HD Road King Classic
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 00, 05:55 AM
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PDQ67, I looked into internally balancing my crank so that I could keep the 350 balancer that I was using and could avoid the balancer plate but the cost was quite high-$350-$400.
Instead my machinist told me just to bring in the flywheel and he could off set balance it so that it would be weighted in the right areas just like a 400 flywheel should be.. Grand total=$65. If you are running an internally balanced crank already, you do not have to modify the 305/5speed flywheel at all.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 00, 07:56 AM
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Don't be so quick to say the LS1 T56 will not work. A buddy of mine put one in his ElCamino. While it is true the input shaft length between the two T56's is very different, the LS1 tranny's input shaft is only .400" longer than a regular chevy manual trans. He took the input shaft out and had a machine shop take .400" off the end and cut the pilot back the same. It will then bolt up. The LS1 hydralic clutch setup is not the pull-off style like the LT1 trans. He took the hydralic slave off and trimmed it a little, then bolted it in with a regular parts house clutch and pressure plate. He fabbed a bracket for the clutch master and down the road he went.
Stephen

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67 RS/SS 350 700R4
69 SS clone unfinished
72 454 Weekend Racer

[This message has been edited by squarles (edited 11-13-2000).]
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 00, 02:51 PM
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Dale - are you still out there? I sent you an e-mail but your address on your profile doesn't work?



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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed; '99 HD Road King Classic
www.geocities.com/sdenning1
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 00, 04:06 PM
 
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squarles,

Tell me more about this conversion you're talking about with respect to cutting the input shaft down.

Is the shaft long enough so that you could bolt the tranny up to a custom Lakewood bell housing and use an old fashioned manual clutch/pressureplate/t/o bearing???

Because if it is this sucker would be a snap!!! Come back. pdq67



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