How Many Trips to the Machine Shop? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 05, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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I'm looking for some advice on how to best work with my machine shop. Do most of you guys just drop everything off and have the machine shop bore, deck, clean, install cam bearings, and balance all at once? Or, do you make several trips so you can clean the block before the cam bearings go in and check piston-to-valve clearance before balancing?

Thanks. -Neil
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 05, 06:53 PM
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I can't and wont speak for everyone, but in my case. I purchased nearly everything minus the bearings before dropping off the motor. The only other real concern is the pistons and rings. The cylinders will have to be mic'd to determin the size of the replacement pistons and rings.

So you can make arrangements to drop off the topend minus the carb. Full rebuild gasket kit, oil pump, freeze plugs, cam, distributor, timing chain, new balancer and the block. Have the block mic'd and then order the new pistons and rings.

Let the shop determin the correct mains and cam bearings.
Have em line bore the block and balance the rods and crank.

They'll appreciate not having to order everthing, your motor will be done sooner, you'll know what was put into it, and even though you didnt do the actuall build up.. you still contributed to it.

I my case I had them do the short block and I finished the build and installed the motor.

Brandon J. licence 1NASTY67

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 05, 07:59 PM
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Personally, I would only give the machinist the parts to do a short block. I wouldn't want a nice set of cylinder heads to "walk off somehow". He/she may or may not be insured for YOUR parts if they get stolen.

Matt Jones
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Art Morrison Ent. Inc.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 05, 08:38 PM
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On the blocks that are dropped of at the shop we clean, mag, line hone with Arp bolt kit, deck to zero, bore and plate hone and maybe stroker clearance the block if needed, final wash and install cam bearings and freeze plugs and on some blocks we correct the cam tunnels to blue print and either bush the lifter bore back to standard or go .875 or .904. And if they bring the rotator in we balance and clearance both ends of the rods and pin bores in the pistons and check the bearing clearances and fit the rings if requested.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 05, 05:53 AM
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It depends on how meticulous (sp) you are..025 will give you zero deck most of the time but not always.To check it you need the pistons rods and crank you are going to run installed in the block to check deck clearence.If piston to valve clearence may be a problem you need to check it before balancing.So you need it cleaned and bored check deck clearence deck it clean again install cam bearings and check piston to valve clearence then balance it.

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 05, 06:39 AM
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With all the blocks we machine we never have to fit any thing up we do everthing off the center line of the crank and the center line of the cam. If your using good parts everthing should come out right.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 05, 07:30 AM
kip
 
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Carl,

not many mainers on this board!
where in windham are you located ? i'm in north yarmouth. i'm goin to need some block work done in the near future and would like to get some pricing.

thanks
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 05, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by 67 Plum:
It depends on how meticulous (sp) you are..025 will give you zero deck most of the time but not always.To check it you need the pistons rods and crank you are going to run installed in the block to check deck clearence.If piston to valve clearence may be a problem you need to check it before balancing.So you need it cleaned and bored check deck clearence deck it clean again install cam bearings and check piston to valve clearence then balance it.
You hit the nail on the head. Doing it the 'right' way involves 3 or 4 trips to the machine shop unless I let the shop do the mockup and cleaning for me. I guess a benefit of letting the shop do the mockup is that you would get a gauranteed deck height. If you did the mockup and told them how much to cut - no guarantee.

Carl - my machinist says if I want a zero deck he wants to determine how much to cut based on a mockup to guard against a piston ending up out of the hole due to tolerance stack. I'm running good stuff - Callies crank, Manley rods, JE pistons. 3.48 stroke x 6" rods x 1.25" compression height puts my theoretical deck height at 8.990. I'm thinking of decking to 8.995 (.005 in the hole) and running a .039 head gasket (.044 quench). I have a new 9.025 bow-tie block. Do you feel that I can safely tell him to cut .030" without a mockup beforehand?

[ 02-03-2005, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Neil B ]
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 05, 11:03 AM
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Just run a thinner gasket and leave a little wiggle room for another pass at the deck later. You can run a .028" GM gasket and cut the deck to 9.00.

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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 05, 11:10 AM
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I agree Carl If you use good parts it should work out right.But the only way to know for sure is do a mockup.I have a 350 shortblock with Wiseco pistons 1.25 comp. hgt. 6" Lunati rods and a Wheeler forged crank in a factory block it had .040 deck clearence.I had it cut .025 and plan to use the Victor gasket.Instead of cutting .030 cut it .020 and use Victor gasket 5746 which is .026 with a 4.100 bore dia. for .041 quench.

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 05, 02:22 PM
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Neil,
Unless you have the proper measuring equipment, especially a stroke checker for the crankshaft, it is best in my opinion to mock the assembly up and check it before decking the block. If you are using real good parts, they should be right on the money, but some of the less expensive cranks leave a bit to be desired as far as the stroke goes. Put it together to be sure.

Bill Koustenis
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Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
1971 Chevelle "Heavy Chevy" original owner


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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 05, 02:52 PM
 
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Ditto Bill on this one..

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 05, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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If I decide to bore and hone first to mockup the rotating assembly, do I ask the machinist to take the cylinders to final spec and bore finish? Or, do I just rough hone enough to fit the pistons and then finish hone after decking? In other words, does the decking process hurt the final bore finish?
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 05, 05:02 PM
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Neil,
If you want to really be precise, it would be best to finish hone the block after decking, with a torque plate. But ... in reality it would be a pain to do it that way. You would have to bore the block, then plate hone it just enough to barely let the pistons slide in the holes. Then mock it up an check the deck hgt. Then deck it and go back and finish honing it with the torque plates again. In all reality, for 99.9% of engines, doing this would probably not make a single bit of difference compared to just boring it, then plate honing it to size, then decking it after you mock it up and check it. Besides, it would cost a mint
If your machine shop has the stuff to check the stroke on the crank, you really should be able to measure everything and get it within a couple of thousanths. The stroke is the hardest thing to measure if you dont have the right tools.

Bill Koustenis
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Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
1971 Chevelle "Heavy Chevy" original owner


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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old Feb 3rd, 05, 05:13 PM
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I'm not a machinist and was unaware until I learned on this board that a machine shop actually doesn't make much on the machine work. Be sure you give your machinist a chance to sell you some, if not all of the parts you'll need. You might be surprised at some of the deals he can get and pass along to you, plus he has access to suppliers that are unavailable to you. I'm as cheap and tight as anyone I know, but now I buy a lot more parts from the machine shop. You might be surprised at how much warmer of a greeting you get when you walk in the door when you're actually supporting his business rather than just having some machine work done.
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