Flywheel Balancing - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old Aug 31st, 02, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Hello, Ok I finally decided to go with the Merline 509 Alum head engine over the GM 502 engine. When I called Hardcore racing they said my 4spd car would need a neutrally balanced flywheel. Does any one know what a neutral balanced flywheel is? and where I can get one? I know of internally and externally balanced flywheels but I'm not sure if the neutrally balanced flywheel is represented by either of the above. Once again thanks for all the help. Joe
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old Aug 31st, 02, 05:37 PM
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I think that's a flywheel with no lump of balance weight on it.
That would be like any early small block, or 396 or 427 flywheel. But does the 502 have the early bolt pattern, or is it smaller like the one piece rear seal small blocks?
David

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old Aug 31st, 02, 05:39 PM
 
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A neutral balanced flywheel or flexplate means that it isn't balanced out of balance or what is called "Detroit-balanced" like the 400SB and 454BB that are both "externally-balanced" engines.

These engines needed more weight to balance them so Detroit put some of the extra needed weight outside the engine at the ends on the flywheel or flexplate and balancer.

All other engines are balanced internally so the balancer and flywheel/flexplate are neutral balanced.

Plus, they aren't balanced for a specific engine so can be used on any engine that can use them.

The other two, (400&454 type), can only be used on their specific engines, but can be used on all of them since they are for them.

Does this make since???

A 400 balancer has a cut off the outer circumference of it as well as a big bump of metal on the flywheel and a plate on the flexplate. The 454 style has the bump of metal on the balancer, but on the inside of it's backside. Plus, has about the same bump and plate on the flywheel and flexplate only both different weights then the 400 has! pdq67





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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 02, 05:13 AM Thread Starter
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pdq67:
A neutral balanced flywheel or flexplate means that it isn't balanced out of balance or what is called "Detroit-balanced" like the 400SB and 454BB that are both "externally-balanced" engines.

These engines needed more weight to balance them so Detroit put some of the extra needed weight outside the engine at the ends on the flywheel or flexplate and balancer.

All other engines are balanced internally so the balancer and flywheel/flexplate are neutral balanced.

Plus, they aren't balanced for a specific engine so can be used on any engine that can use them.

The other two, (400&454 type), can only be used on their specific engines, but can be used on all of them since they are for them.

Does this make since???

A 400 balancer has a cut off the outer circumference of it as well as a big bump of metal on the flywheel and a plate on the flexplate. The 454 style has the bump of metal on the balancer, but on the inside of it's backside. Plus, has about the same bump and plate on the flywheel and flexplate only both different weights then the 400 has! pdq67

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, this cleared up alot. Joe
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 02, 01:48 PM
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Joe,
Who are you getting the engine from ? A 509 can be internal or external balance...the engine builder should be able to tell you. If it is internally balanced, then the neutral flywheel is correct.

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 02, 02:47 PM
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Joe,
I just finished setting up the flywheel on my 540 from Bill Mitchell. The motor is internally balanced. So you do need a neutral balanced flywheel, meaning there are no counter weights on it. I thought you might be interested in hearing my woes before you purchase one. I have a center force dual friction clutch so I order a RAM 11" neutral balance flywheel from summit and bolt it up and find the springs in the clutch disk are rubbing against the flywheel bolts. Turns out the counter bore in the ram flywheel is very shallow and I believe the hays is the same. Just be carefull with your selection. I ended up buying a centerforce flywheel model 700120 neutral balance 168 tooth ring gear fits 10.5 through 12" clutch, it was a little pricey but a nice quality peice SFI as well. Good luck with that monster!
Rich
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 02, 04:50 AM Thread Starter
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 67ragtp:
Joe,
I just finished setting up the flywheel on my 540 from Bill Mitchell. The motor is internally balanced. So you do need a neutral balanced flywheel, meaning there are no counter weights on it. I thought you might be interested in hearing my woes before you purchase one. I have a center force dual friction clutch so I order a RAM 11" neutral balance flywheel from summit and bolt it up and find the springs in the clutch disk are rubbing against the flywheel bolts. Turns out the counter bore in the ram flywheel is very shallow and I believe the hays is the same. Just be carefull with your selection. I ended up buying a centerforce flywheel model 700120 neutral balance 168 tooth ring gear fits 10.5 through 12" clutch, it was a little pricey but a nice quality peice SFI as well. Good luck with that monster!
Rich
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Rich thanks for the info. This will be a big help! Do mind if I ask what type of starter and headers your using? I'm also from NJ hope to see you around. Thanks again, Joe
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 02, 07:31 AM
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Joe,
Nice to hear from a fellow NJer, I live in bergen. Where are you? As far as a starter goes, I went with a power master #9200. I did have to die grind a radius around the mounting surface of the starter near the oil pan flange. They installed a milidon pan on my motor and the flanges are a little on the wide side. I hope the starter works out, one thing Im not crazy about is the depth the gear on the starter engages the ring gear, When the starter gear bangs against the nose bushing it only pushes out to engage half the depth of the ring gear. Not sure if you guys can visualize this, but Ive read in other posts that it shouldnt be a problem. If anyone has any input please let me know? Otherwise it looks pretty good, nice and small/gear reduction and comes with bolts and shim. Headers and Bigblock= hammer time, nothing bothers me more than looking at a pounded set of pipes. This is a problem, Ive asked a million questions and have very few answers. Not sure if you know it or not but the heads have raised exhaust runners, The mitchell people will tell you every thing is in the stock location, but not entirely true.
The deck height and intake runners but the exhaust ports are higher(good luck getting an exact dimension. This is big problem since standard headers from headman and hooker are fixtured on factory heads. I dont claim to be an authority on this but I sure have seen a lot of banged up pipes on BBs, even with factory heads. Most of the time to clear the power steering box. I wanted a set with 2.125in primarys and want them too fit, so I called lemmons headers out in calif, which was refered by a guy on this board(camcojb/Jody), very helpful. Any way Dan at lemmons is custom making them for me and since Im running a 4-speed the z-bar is also a problem for him since the number 5 tube runs around it, although he has a 68 camaro factory 4-speed with power steering that he,s going to fit them too first, its just taking alot of time and yes they will cost me a fortune. Maybe if you use a 2" or 1.75" they will fit, Im just not convinced yet with headman and hooker. Did you happen to notice the pivot ball boss on the merlin 2 block is not drilled and tapped b/c theres a casted boss sticking out of it for an external oil pressure fitting/pipe plug. I almost had a heart attack when I saw this. I ended up fabricating the exact location off the end of my lakewood bell and doing some TIG welding. Sorry for the long post but theres alot of technical issues with the merlin that I think people should know about. My E-mail is [email protected] if you want to talk about the motors. Hope this was helpful. Rich
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