Rotor, #1 plug wire and balancer are not consistant to TDC???? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 12th, 02, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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We just set the timing on my camaro about 4 weeks ago and since then I had to install a new tranny. I had the cap off so I could tilt the back of the engine down some to reach the bellhousing bolts. I can't be sure if I turned the engine over at all with the cap off or not to get the flywheel bolts. The problem I am having now is: I went to check the timing again and the marks where below the timing tab and not even close. The car runs great or so it seems. I pulled the number one plug and had a friend crank the engine over until I felt compressed air just blow my finger off the hole. So I found TDC. I pulled the distrtibutor cap off and the rotor was pointing just left of the number one plug wire, about half way to the next plug wire. This is close but I am not sure if it is suppose to be this way. The timing mark on the balancer was way before the timing tab though. I don't think I could of jumped time this bad. Could I of slipped the balancer it is 2 piece balancer but fairly new? With the piston at TDC and the rotor so close to number one plug wire, I think this is right. We had it set to 18 degrees intial and 36 total before the tranny came out, and I don't run a vacumm advance at all. Where does 18 BTDC put the rotor in comparison to the number one plug wire? I hope I explained this well enough. Super Chevy is here this weekend I was hoping to run my first 12's this weekend. Thanks, Erik

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68 Camaro RS, Built 355, 274 Comp Cam, Sportsman II Heads 200 c.c. 2.02. Ported to Performer RPM Manifold and 1.75" Headers, 1.5 Roller Rockers, 650 Holley, Steel Crank, 12 Bolt posi with 4.11 Gears, TH350 tranny w/ shift kit.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 12th, 02, 04:31 PM
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The rotor will still be pointing at #1 plug wire on the cap for 18* btdc. You rotate the whole distributor to advance or retard timing, so the plug wire position stays relative to the rotor etc... This is not your problem. You probably bumped the distributor position when you replaced the tranny. Check the timing with a light.

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 12th, 02, 07:17 PM
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The distributor turns at half speed to the crank, so 18 degrees crank, equals 9 degrees at the rotor.
David

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 02, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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So does this make sense that my rotor is actually pointed just left of the number one plug wire? I guess I must have a slipped the harmonic balancer outer ring huh? If the distributor is at number one on TDC but the balancer is about 2 inches bekow the timing mark, is it a sure bet the balancer slipped? I know how to set timing but I am still learning on how to fix other problems. I tried to set the timing to 18 degrees so the marks were right on the balancer but the car was having a very hard time starting. I hopes it just the balancer. It runs good now but the marks are now where close as to what they were three weeks ago. And all I did was install a new tranny. i can't remember if I turned the engine over to get all the flywheel bolts with the cap off or not. I want to say no! Any suggestions? Thanks, Erik
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 02, 03:31 AM
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FYI Erik,

I have two 6 inch balancers and their TDC mark is above the keyway.

You might take and punch mark the hub to the inertia ring for future reference in case this happens again.

You can take a screwdriver and fit into the spark plug hole and turn engine by hand (wrench) and get an approximate mechanical TDC of the piston. This way you know where TDC is at, the scale may be incorrect and/or the inertia ring have moved on its hub.

As David said, it will never be exact pointing. One way to set initial timing was to turn engine to setting desired on balancer, turn on AM transistor radio, turn dist body with key on, to a loud snap. That was the setting, bolt it down. Assumes, of course, if you have points system.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 02, 04:36 AM Thread Starter
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As I said, I did have a friend turn the engine over while I had my finger over the number one plug hole and when the compression came up on my finger I assumed I was at TDC then I popped the cap off the distributor and found I was really close to the number one plug wire terminla, maybe a couple of degrees off. But the harmonic balancer was way off, like two inches below the timing tab. Is this a sure bet the ring has slipped? Thanks, Erik

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68 Camaro RS, Built 355, 274 Comp Cam, Sportsman II Heads 200 c.c. 2.02. Ported to Performer RPM Manifold and 1.75" Headers, 1.5 Roller Rockers, 650 Holley, Steel Crank, 12 Bolt posi with 4.11 Gears, TH350 tranny w/ shift kit.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 02, 06:31 AM
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I think you are ok and nothing is wrong, once you pop the cap it's all eye balling to see if the rotor and cap line up. To test this start the car, warm it up and set the timing to TDC (zero degs) and tighten down the dist. Now shut it down and find TDC (careful it's gonna be warm) and pop the cap and verify the rotor is in the correct position with the cap. I bet it is, reset the timing to 18 and go!!!
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 02, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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Thats the problem. I can't set the timing because the marks on the balancer are no where close to the timing tab. I set the timing a few weeks ago and the car has ran great and then last night I went to check the timing and the marks on the balancer were 2 inchs below the tab. So I can't set the timing. I guess if I pull the crank pulley off then I could compare the keyhole in relation to the tdc line with a new balancer to see if the old balancer has slipped right. Later, Erik

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68 Camaro RS, Built 355, 274 Comp Cam, Sportsman II Heads 200 c.c. 2.02. Ported to Performer RPM Manifold and 1.75" Headers, 1.5 Roller Rockers, 650 Holley, Steel Crank, 12 Bolt posi with 4.11 Gears, TH350 tranny w/ shift kit.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 02, 03:19 PM
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Take a piece of string and wrap it around your balancer so that the ends meet. Now mark the string in 20 even segments. Now you have 18* segments. Start with the 0* mark and wrap the string around the balancer. Bring it to where the first mark before tdc. lines up with the pointer, this will be 18* btdc. See if your rotor is pointed at #1 plug wire. It will be if it is on the compression stroke, otherwise it should be pointed at #6.If this isn't the case,your ring must have slipped.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 16th, 02, 07:18 AM
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You can't find true #1 TDC (to check your balancer index mark against the timing tab) with strings, ropes, or screwdrivers; get a piston stop tool and find EXACT #1 TDC with it, and compare to your marks. Then put a scribe or paint line across the hub and ring for future visual reference to see if the ring has shifted. I see mix-and-match balancers and timing covers/tabs all the time, as not everyone is aware that the timing index line on the outer ring moved 9 degrees counter-clockwise from the keyway in '69, and the timing cover tabs had to change to match. If you don't accurately establish a baseline, you'll never know where you really are.

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 16th, 02, 07:45 AM Thread Starter
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Well, i figured out this weekend that my balancer has slipped or atleast I assume. I took the crank pulley off and compared a new Fluidamper balancer to the balancer that is currently on the car and with the keyways lined up and the engine at TDC the bad balncer was about 1.5 inches retarded. I put the new balancer on it was lined up real close, within a degree. So I am going to get a piston stop and make sure everything is perfect. If the tdc line on the balancer is in different spot with the key ways lined up, then it is a sure bet the balancer has slipped right?

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68 Camaro RS, Built 355, 274 Comp Cam, Sportsman II Heads 200 c.c. 2.02. Ported to Performer RPM Manifold and 1.75" Headers, 1.5 Roller Rockers, 650 Holley, Steel Crank, 12 Bolt posi with 4.11 Gears, TH350 tranny w/ shift kit.
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