starter solenoid questions - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 03, 03:55 AM Thread Starter
 
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My car usually starts right up when its cold. When its hot, a good amount of the time the starter just clicks.

My original plan was to install a starter solenoid relocation kit (from Jeg's). Then I started thinking, would I still need to use the solenoid mounted on the starter. That makes that kit worthless then?

I was also looking at the Hot Shot Starter Solution (from Classic Industries). Do any of have this? Does it basically just supply more juice to the starter? How?

I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to the electrical part of my car, so I'm going to have someone help me "test" the starter at the end of the week. If I do need to replace it...

Have you had good luck with mini starters? I've heard good things about them. I've got headers, my starter now is as big as a coffee can - doesn't help the heat problem.

Thanks in advance,
Tom
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 03, 04:53 AM
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Your starter problems are from "heat soak". A cheaper idea that might work is a heat sheild ; not the answer to everything but is a cheap starting point.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 03, 06:29 AM
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The main problem is that the resistance of the solenoid coil increases with temperature, and it takes more current to pull it in. The circuit for the solenoid coil goes through the ignition switch, neutral safety switch and several connections before getting to the starter solenoid. A small amount of resistance in this circuit will dramatically decrease the current available for starting. Go to the auto parts store and get a $10 Ford starter relay and wire it in like the diagram. The purple wire is the one that now goes to your solenoid, and the new wiring will provide the maximum current to your solenoid.
Another problem that arises in starter solenoids is that the contacts at the base of the solenoid erode with time and make a poor connection. If you take the solenoid off the starter and remove the two large copper studs, you will see that they make contact with a copper ring. Rotate the studs 180 to get the unused portion of the contact area into play, and clean the copper ring.
No matter which external circuit you use, you will need the original starter solenoid to pull in the gear and switch current to the starter motor.

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 03, 07:09 AM
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What onovakind67 says will solve your problem. I had the same problem with my starter. The headers would heat the solenoid, and it wouldn't start after I cut it off. After doing some "welding" with a screw driver a few times trying to jump across the solenoid to the starter, I decided to do what ever it took to fix the problem. I tried a heat shield first, that didn't work (although it probably will make the starter last longer). I added the remote solenoid, and I haven't had a hot start problem since.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 03, 08:33 AM
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I had the same problems. I added a heat shield and that helped some, then I got new headers that were jet hot coated and haven't had a problem with it since.

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 03, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all the input.

I did forget to mention that I do have a shield. It's not actually a metal shield that you bolt on but it's a reflective "metal" type wrap that you wrap around the starter and secure with metal straps.

onovakind67, Thanks for the illustration, I need all the help I can get [img]smile.gif[/img] Couple questions though. Where does the purple wire come from? I'm assuming it comes from the ignition and then through all the other connections as you stated. So, is the ford solenoid basically used to boost the current of the purple wire after it has traveld through all those other connections?

Thanks again,
Tom
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 03, 01:07 PM
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Exactly. The purple wire is the one that used to go to your starter solenoid. You move it up to the Ford relay, to the 's' terminal, just like it was on your solenoid. The coil resistance of the Ford relay is about 20 times as much as the starter solenoid, so the current through the ignition switch/neutral safety switch loop is greatly decreased. Since the Ford relay is rated at many more amps than the solenoid coil can draw, it has large contacts and will provide the absolute maximum current to your solenoid.

"For those that will fight for it...FREEDOM ...has a flavor the protected shall never know."
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old Mar 17th, 03, 03:37 PM
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Onovakind has it right. I need to do that to mine. It won't do anything if the engine has been run hard, but cold it works fine. It is a band-aid solution but a simple one that works.

I will run a wire in paralell from the starter motor/battery hot lead (fat red wire)to one of the high sides of the Ford solenoid and a wire from the other high side back to the "S" terminal on the starter. The purple wire will now run to the "S" terminal on the Ford solenoid to operate the whole Rube Goildberg assembly. If you can start your car with a screwdriver, this is a cheep & easy way to solve the problem.

-Mark.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 04, 02:50 PM
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I am having the heat soak problem on my car, even with a heat shield installed. I am going to try the Ford solenoid, what model car will work? Is the same solenoid used on all Ford applications? I have to be very specific when I go to the local Autozone and buy parts.

Thanks,
Brian
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 04, 06:55 PM
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Something to consider is battery cable condition, both positive and negative. Cables can and do wear out think of them somewhat like sparkplug wires. When the resistance get's too high you have less energy going through them. Next is the negative connection to the block, make sure it's clean. Next are the grounds from the chassis to the block and chassis. These need to be clean connections also. Also check the condition of the green and purple wires that connect to the starter. They also must be in good condition. Alot of times these wires are hard and brittle or partialy burt through. Check them and repair if nessary. Make sure the connections are clean and connectors are crimped/soldered to the wire ends. You also want to check where the starter bolts to the block. You want a clean connection here also, no paint or grease and grime.

You will be suprised what you might find when checking all these areas. It might not fix your problem because chevys just have a hot start/heat soak problems anyway. My 67 is drivin daily and during the summers hottest days I am yet to have a hot start problem. I don't have high compression or run loads of spark lead but I have maintained the system as above and i have been trouble free......knock on wood!!

Joe

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 5th, 04, 07:02 AM
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The battery cables appear to be in good shape, but I was going to replace them anyway. The other wiring is brand new since I put a new wiring harness in.

Thanks,
Brian


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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 5th, 04, 02:08 PM
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I put a used mini starter from a 99 GMC Yuckon on my 67 with a 396 & it spins my big block like it doesn't have any compression at all, before I had a GM high torque starter compltely rebuilt at a local starter shop with the GM heat shield, starter brace & new wiring, when it was hot it was a push model. I love my new starter. It only costed $30.00 used at a salavage yard.


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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 04, 04:31 PM
 
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Is the purple wire #12 gauge also? Thinking about doing this to my 67 Camaro RS 350 also. Thank's MoonMan
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 04, 05:49 PM
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The purple wire is the original solenoid wire and I believe it is 12 gauge.

"For those that will fight for it...FREEDOM ...has a flavor the protected shall never know."
Semper Fi! L/Cpl Edwin L. "Tim" Craft, B Co 3rd AT's, Khe Sanh Combat Base, February, 1968
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