Powergilde to 200/700r4...Questions.. - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 01, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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The car is a '67 Camaro with the original powerglide--shifting on the column. I have just finished a complete build up of the front end & engine...I think its time for a new tranny...

I am going to go with either a 700R4 or a 200R4. My 8.2 rear end, I think, is 3.08.

First off, is there any way to keep the column shifter. Adapters, brackets, etc.

2) Other than gear ratios and length (I think the 200 will bolt in to my application) are there any discernable differences between the 700 and 200. I am leaning towards the 700 w/ the low first gear, but I like the fact that the 200 fits with only a few mods.

3) Whats the deal with the lock-up converter. I have heard that performance applications use the non lock-up. But then again all rebuild companies sell some sort of non computerized kit to lock up in fourth. Whats the scoop on this...

And lastly who makes (remans) the best setups...B&M, JET, TCI, TPI are all names Ive heard but I havenít heard anything good or bad.

Thanks for any info...
Ethan '67
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 01, 07:15 AM
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John
 
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I haven't done this to my car, but I have thought about it. Unless you are planning on changing out that 3.08 gear I wouldn't think you would need the overdrive. A TH350 is an easier swap.

The big rpm drop between first and second in the 700 isn't ideal. I would just plan on changing out the rear gear to something a little lower and going with the 200. You won't need as low of a first if you have a good performance rear and then the overdrive would be useful over the 3.08 which is already pretty highway worthy.

Everyone tells me that you should use a lockup unless you are racing it. Lockup eliminates converter slip in overdrive to reduce heat and extends the life of the tranny.

I have heard good things about TPI, but haven't driven one.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 01, 08:11 AM
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Daniel
 
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Ethan,
1) I don't know about the column shifter. I have a floor shift. I would think that it would work if you don't mind the indicator being wrong.
2) I have read others say that the 700 can not be built as strong as the 200. I had mine built for my car and have no problems. You probably should change the rear gears to something else, maybe a 3.42 or 3.73? My car has a 3.31 in it and under 55 it lugs. With a 3.08, 26 in. tires at 55 the RPM is only 1450.
3) If you want the benefit of the overdrive you need the lockup converter. It only engages in 4th so I am not sure why you would not want one.
4) I got my 2004R from Phoenix Transmissions, http://www.phoenixtrans.com/ They were great to work with and really new there stuff. They built it according to what my car needed.

If you need more info from me, e-mail me.
Daniel

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 9th, 01, 12:17 PM
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I did a swap very similiar to this in my Nova last year, it wasn't that bad. Since the Nova and Camaro are nearly identical up front, I think it would easy for you too. First, I had a column shifter and kept it. I got a kit from Lokar I believe that was super easy to install and works great! Best of all, it directly connects the column to the tranny shift knob without all that lever stuff on the frame. Second, I went with a 700r4 because at the time I didn't know much about the 2004rs. If i were to do it again, I would do the 2004r. Like 67ss350 said, the 200s can be built stronger than a 700, plus they are almost a direct bolt in. Just move the crossmember back a bit. One thing to consider is what torque convertor to use. With a rear gear like that you don't want a 2800 to 3000 rpm convertor because when you are driving, the motor will bog down so you will be well below the stall point. Check out the 200, I think you'll love it.

Bill C.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 01, 04:07 PM
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Thats what we do ...changeovers.
And we are in your backyard. 2004r only way to go...Contact us and our satisfied customers to get further info.
Bruce
WE4

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Bruce Toelle
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"WE HAVE THE 2004R PARTS!"
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 01, 05:03 PM
 
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Hi,

I recently visited Performance Transmissions In Sacramento,Ca. While I was there I saw 3 2004R conversions. A 69 firebird,65 Skylark,and a '27 "T". The 65 Skylark owner was telling me his fuel milage went from 18mpg to 24 mpg! The Firebird owner probably had a 500HP motor. The "T" owner had a showcar. You are fortunate to have someone in your back yard. I would suggest going over to see Brucee Toelle. He can answer your questions and show you his product. Bruce can build the 2004R to handle up to 900 HP. Take care.



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Joe
87GN
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 06, 09:41 AM
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Brad
 
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Re: Powergilde to 200/700r4...Questions..

While doing a search, I stumbled upon this old thread and it's exactly what I'm considering doing in my Camaro. Mine is completely stock with a 250/PG and I want to drill and massage as little as possible to the car. How well does the 700r4 fit in place of the Powerglide? Do I need to move the crossmember? Can anyone in Portland recommend a shop for rebuilding the trans and setting it up?

1968 C10 SWB Torch Red
1968 Camaro, 250\Powerglide, all original (No, I'm not gonna drop a 350 in it!....Jeez!)
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 06, 10:57 AM
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Re: Powergilde to 200/700r4...Questions..

My new 700r is in my mechanics shop waiting for 3 days of clean calendar for him to put it in for me. My tranny guy said as long as you are not drag racing or building up the engine for ultimate HP, the 700r was perfect for me. He said while the 200r can be built stronger, its easier to find parts and a shop to repair it on a road trip if its a 700r. He said it was newer and easier to work on.
www.bowtieoverdrives.com has info. broken down on all the tranny options out there.
With the 700r the th350 crossmember can be used but it has to be moved back and 2 new holes drilled but workable or new kits are available too. The standard th350/PG horseshoe shifter works as well, with a kit for a new detent and display pattern. The driveshaft will have to be shortened as well, not a biggie project. *forgot that earlier* The bolt in term is more for bolting to the engine and other parts bolt up to it, like shifters, dipstick, speedo, etc.
Its sorta like Coke and Pepsi, 200r or 700r. Do your homework and talk to your tranny experts to advise what is best for YOUR car.
Im keeping my 3.08 posi and with 26" tires I hope to get over 26mpg on the highway next summer on our cruises.
Just my 2cents.

Click..is Jim..former owner of a 69RS-LM1 350/255 - 700r
"There will come a time when you believe everything is finished,
That will be the beginning." Louis L'Amour

Last edited by click; Nov 26th, 06 at 01:40 PM.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 06, 11:02 AM
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Jim
 
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Re: Powergilde to 200/700r4...Questions..

As for the overdirve and rear gear, it's all a matter of torque. My 383 is perfectly happy pulling OD with a 3.08 gear, it will pull it down to 1500 rpm without complaining, and that's without a torque converter helping out.





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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 06, 11:53 AM
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Tom
 
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Check out shift works to keep your column shift.

http://www.shiftworks.com/kugel.htm

Hey Jim isn't 1500 RPM's to low ? I have always thought 1800-2200 RPM's is ideal for a small block.

A bolt in ? The only real difference, is that you would need a shorter driveshaft with the 700.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Nov 30th, 06, 10:17 AM
 
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Re: Powergilde to 200/700r4...Questions..

We use to call the 2 speed power glide a "power slide" tranny, ha ha.

I had one in my old 67 half ton six banger- no power steering, got a good work out driving that baby.

Dirt track racers might like to get a handle on your old tranny if you decide to sell it.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Nov 30th, 06, 10:55 PM
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Brad
 
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Re: Powergilde to 200/700r4...Questions..

Mines a PG Torque Drive- it's basically a manual shift automatic. It doesn't have a 'drive' gear and it shifts very nicely but the 1.76 1st gear kinda sucks. I'll never sell it because the car's all original.

1968 C10 SWB Torch Red
1968 Camaro, 250\Powerglide, all original (No, I'm not gonna drop a 350 in it!....Jeez!)
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 1st, 06, 03:55 AM
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Re: Powergilde to 200/700r4...Questions..

I did a TH350 to 2004R swap last winter and would recommend it, otherwise you will have to modify your driveshaft length.

If you go the 200 route I noticed several posts mentioned you could reuse your existing trans crossmember by sliding it back and drilling some new holes. This was not the case in my swap. While the length of a 200 & 350 are the same the trans mount on a 200 sits about 6 inches further back versus a TH350. The was no room to slide the crossmember back plus I would have had to flatten the ends of the crossmember. I ended up using the Bowtie Overdrive crossmember.

Regardless of whether you go with a 700 or 200 install the largest trans cooler you can and use it in conjunction with your trans cooler in your radiator if so equipped.

Rod
69 Camaro with LS2/4l70e

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