oil temp gauge sending unit location - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old May 8th, 04, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Rick
 
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My Autometer electric oil temp directions say the sender is to be installed in a welded-in bung in the pan. At this time, I don't want to pull the pan. My local part house said to tee off the oil pressure fitting but that doesn't make sense to me as I would think any reading would not be really accurate. Short of letting this snowball and putting in an oil cooler and using that line, what options are there? I can't get the plug out above the oil filter ( sanpped off a 1/4" extension trying!).

Rick Dorion
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old May 8th, 04, 02:27 PM
 
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You might think about using a reducer plug, at the oil drain point, and installing the sender into the reducer.

Without an oil cooler or a bung specifically for something like this, I see your delemma.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old May 8th, 04, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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One of the 'bungs' provided is the same size as the drain plug but it's NPT threads. There , to me, isn't enough meat left on a drain plug to drill it out and tap it for the sender. I briefly considered tapping the drain hole to NPT threads but don't know how kindly it would take to being removed periodically for oil changes. Could a remote oil cooler adapter be used ( goes between the existing filter and block)?

Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv therapy program, Autogear M22, 8-pt cage, with a new 410! SOLD
New therapy program - 68 Coupe. Will be survivor exterior, modern underpinnings! SOLD
67 Belair with perfect floors, pinchwelds and firewall. Hmmm!
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old May 9th, 04, 10:49 AM
 
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I dont see why it could not......even if you did not use it right now as a cooler adapter, you could still use the orifice as a place for a sender.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old May 9th, 04, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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I was wondering if those adapters need the two ports connected with the sender added into the line? If I plugged one port and used the other for the sender, would the oil flow through the filter as normal or would I have blocked the oil passage.

Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv therapy program, Autogear M22, 8-pt cage, with a new 410! SOLD
New therapy program - 68 Coupe. Will be survivor exterior, modern underpinnings! SOLD
67 Belair with perfect floors, pinchwelds and firewall. Hmmm!
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old May 9th, 04, 12:46 PM
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You can drill and tap a hole right through the drain plug; AutoMeter makes a small-diameter sending unit just for that purpose. I used three of them on my Grand Sport (engine oil temp, trans oil temp, and diff temp). At drain time, you just pull the wire off the sender terminal and remove the plug (requires a side- or rear-mounted drain plug, obviously - won't work with a bottom-mounted drain plug due to road clearance - Corvette pans have the plug on the rear vertical wall of the pan). [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old May 9th, 04, 06:04 PM
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I agree with John. The Autometer electic gauge sending unit uses a 1/8"-NPT that can be adapted to the drain plug.

Some aftermarket pans use a drain plug with a small hex head. You may need to find a larger head screw to have enough meat to tap, but it should work fine.

The parts house guy said to tap into the pressure line? [img]graemlins/clonk.gif[/img]

Tom:

Track day: Water temps 180*, oil max 260* (normally about 240 on the track), about 85* ambient. Valvoline 10-30.


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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old May 10th, 04, 02:42 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks, all.

Carl - I have the same Milodon pan you used to have and the drain plug is meaty. I think my gound clearance will still be the lowest at the header flange but it's close. Oh well, we'll give it a try.

Next winter I'll go with the pan you/Tom and others are now using for all the stated reasons.

Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv therapy program, Autogear M22, 8-pt cage, with a new 410! SOLD
New therapy program - 68 Coupe. Will be survivor exterior, modern underpinnings! SOLD
67 Belair with perfect floors, pinchwelds and firewall. Hmmm!
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old May 10th, 04, 06:31 AM
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I'm kinda confused. You said you didn't want to pull the pan in your original post. Are you willing to drill and tap into the oil pan with it still on the motor? It seems kind of risky to me....what with metal shavings and all....just thinking out loud.


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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old May 10th, 04, 06:47 AM
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Al,

He's going to drill and tap the drain plug bolt, not the pan.


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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old May 10th, 04, 06:57 AM
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[img]graemlins/clonk.gif[/img]


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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old May 10th, 04, 09:45 AM
 
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[img]graemlins/clonk.gif[/img] Yea, Mondays suck....


Carl~

260* was at rest or in the pits, right? Did you have the same readings on the way to and from the track? I am just wondering, because I found the temperatures to run in the 220* range while driving (subdued) on the street and 240* while on the track. But then again, this was also running straight 40 wt Redline. I wonder if that has more to do with this or not?

BTW, what gauge and sender are you using? As this may also be part of my quandry.....I have observed emperical differences depending on what is being used and have noted on some set-ups that it was off by as much as 15-20*. But I guess being in Instrumentation, makes me more anal on this stuff to begin with. Afterall, without this stuff, we would only be guessing on what is really going on.

Oh yea, who was the track day anyway !?!! Do tell....
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old May 10th, 04, 10:58 AM
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It's an Autometer electric gauge. I did not calibrate using a IR gun, but after Sunday I need to do that.

On the highway:

65* ambient, 180* water temp (intake manifold sender location) oil temps 140*. Cruise RPM 2500 at 75 mph.

95* ambient, 180* water temp, 170*-180* at same cruise as above, 210* at idle when radiator outlet temps reach 195*.

80* ambient, 180* water temp, 140*-150* oil temp at freeway cruise. Around town temps go up 10*-20*.

On track, RPM range typically 3000-5000, 6000 max. Valvoline 10-30 non-syn. Average oil temp 230*-240*, max 260*. Pressure would tend to fall with temperature so the oil type is an issue.

It was Hotchkis Track Day. Craig Boone with nice '69 car with a 415 SB broke his crank, and another guy pancaked the entire front suspension on his Mini C. OUCH!


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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old May 10th, 04, 11:39 AM
 
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Kinda nice to have the water temperature so stable...isnt it??

Man, I hate to say this.....cuz its just more money, but at least it is cheap.....but it sounds like you might want to consider an oil temperature control valve and run it no less than 215*.

From the dissertations I recall with the engineers at RedLine and Mobile1, the oil needs to be maintained at or above 210-215* so that the additives can do their work. This was also important to maintain the operating temperatures of the water and oil to maximize cooling efficiency and improve cumbustion efficiency from it being held within a specific region. This equals repeatable peak power output.......

The idea is to keep the oil temperature 40* warmer than the water temperature. This would assure stability in the oil addatives and allow the oil operate in its designed temperature threshold. If it is too cool, the additives will not do their associated work (cleaning, de-carbon, etc) besides lubrication and a medium to transfer heat energy.

A little something found by JJ at TRACO was the only difference between RedLine and Mobile1 was that he noticed less upper valvestem wear with the RedLine over the Mobile1. All else was considered equal.....detergents, thermal stability and temperature operation window. But that they both also ran about 20-40* cooler than other oils that he had run in dyno tests.

I'd be interesed in any results from an oil change....either just a fresh batch or even a syn. change over.... Keeping in mind of the bearing clearences your engine has been set up with......

Man I wish the 34 chnl DA system from Edelebrock wasnt so darn much money. It would be cool to set up various cars (with using the same system) on different tracks or in various operating conditions just to see dynamic comparisons.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old May 10th, 04, 02:58 PM
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Looks like we're hijacking this post......

I agree, the temps are too cold for the street.

But, I had to run the CV block adapter, remote filter, and CR radiator. So how in the heck do I run a thermostat? With the excessive cooling the radiator has I've even thought of blocking off some of the top part of the radiator to bring temps up.

Maybe I should just "Track Day" drive the car on the street!


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