shifting the muncie - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 02, 04:25 AM Thread Starter
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Location: Kansas City, Missouri, USA
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Finally went to the track this weekend, my car launched beautifully, straight as an arrow, hooked great with the ET streets, went to grab second gear and it was like hitting a brick wall, would not go. Coasted thru in like a 17 second pass, pretty embarassing. Went back and adjusted the clutch out some, ran out of adjustment. Now what? Go to aftermarket Lokar linkage? My 68 has a 502/502 with 4 speed Muncie, Hurst shifter, 3.73 gears, centerforce II clutch, anyone have ideas? Floor/firewall is not flexing

Joe in KC

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68 Camaro 502/502 w/3.73
70 Monte Carlo 400 T400
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 02, 07:14 AM
 
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Do you have the stock type nylon bushings? Are the shifter arms binding? I guess sometimes you actually have to "de-burr" the arms otherwise they tend to bind. If you have the nylon bushings, you could order replacement metal bushings directly from Hurst. Also, if you use a washer on the other side of the bushing (where the retainer clip goes) that is supposed to help prevent binding.

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1969, X-44, Export Model, Hugger Orange, Std. Int., BC Rear(soon to be a BT 12 bolt), PDB, GMPP 350HO, M22 Supercase, SSM Lift Bars, AirGap, Holley 750, FlowMaster American Thunder Exhaust, FlowTech Headers
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 02, 08:12 AM
 
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All I have ever had to do with my stock, '67 Muncie is just keep it clean and lubed up...

I know the Hurst Competition+ shifters were/are(?) better, but I just always liked my Muncie shifter.. pdq67



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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 02, 08:37 AM
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Depending on if you dirve this on the street or not and if you want to keep it original, you might consider the following. By the way I have done all of these things and they eliminated the problem you describe.

Consider a hurst super shifter. It mounts higher and a bit further back than a stock shifter. You will need to cut the tunnel hole to clear the shifter but the end result is that all the linkage arms are now straight, no bends whatsoever. They arms are also much larger in diameter. The end result is that the linkage arms will not flex, bend or deflect. The downside is you have to cut the tunnel. If you have a console you will not be able to continue to use it.

One other trick I have used is to remove the 3 dog teeth from each of the 2 slider hubs in the transmission. What this does is eliminate any small time gap or binding that can occur during a shift, caused by the dog teeth having to line up with the synchro ring. There are 2 significant downsides to this however. First you now longer have a synchronized trans, meaning that you will not be able to smoothly shift it for street driving, you will always have to power or speed shift, you also will not be able to downshift. Also it is very hard on the brass synchro rings so plan on frequent inspections and when you see the small teeth on each ring getting rounded, you will need to replace.

One last trick I did was to cut each shift arm, and shorten it just a bit. This results in a shorter shifter travel throw between each gear, (faster shifts) My total stick travel between 1st and 2nd and 3rd and 4th is about 1"

These might all be to radical for how you use the car. I use a spare trans with the teeth removed for the strip and a different trans for the street.

Of course do not consider any of these without first confirming that you dont have other problems like clutch adjustments, weak or broken trans or motor mounts, bad synchros etc.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 02, 11:09 AM
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If you ran out of clutch adjustment. Try adding a threaded rod section to the existing piece. I used the 3/8-16 on a small block and attached it to the zbar. This was done beacause I noticed my existing clutch adjustment connecting rod had some thread broken off. It worked and allowed me to shift perfectly. (not sure if this is what you are talking about though).
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 02, 12:41 PM
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Make sure that the body isn't torqueing enough so that the clutch doesn't release. It is a very common problem especially in uni-body cars. I tried pro shifting a Muncie years ago. It really didn't help and it sure shortened the enguagement tooth life.



[This message has been edited by oger (edited 11-18-2002).]
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 02, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Oger,
Thanks for the input, my clutch pedal engauges approx-2inches above the floor, I am out of adjustment, do I need aftermarket help, or alter/lengthen the adjustment rod. The sumbitch would not let go from first to second,could this be a problem with my Z bar, the 502 is mounted on solid mounts, no flex?..And I mean this thing hooks and books

Joe in KC

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68 Camaro 502/502 w/3.73
70 Monte Carlo 400 T400
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 02, 12:34 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ken69:

Consider a hurst super shifter. It mounts higher and a bit further back than a stock shifter.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are going to get serious at all about drag racing your Muncie forget about using the Competition Plus shifter. It's a piece of junk.

I raced successfully for probably 2 seasons with a newly rebuilt (rebuilt by Hurst) Comp + before I started having problems.

After wasting a full season trying to figure out what the problem was I finally got someone at Hurst who spoke no bull and told me the Comp + is not meant for the abuses of drag racing.

This guy turned me onto the Super Shifter/3. I was sad to lose the console, but DAMN...this shifter is sweet. The throws are much shorter, crisper and the thing looks bulletproof right down to the linkage.

-gw

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1967 Camaro
406/M20 [email protected] 1.665 60' on a 4 speed
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 02, 05:12 AM Thread Starter
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ken69 and gwarren, thanks for the info, as soon as I get the part number I'm overnighting the shifter in.

Joe in KC

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68 Camaro 502/502 w/3.73
70 Monte Carlo 400 T400
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 02, 05:33 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joebar:
ken69 and gwarren, thanks for the info, as soon as I get the part number I'm overnighting the shifter in.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeg's sells them. But please, make sure that the problem you are chasing isn't clutch related first.

I do feel however that you won't go wrong in the long run if you plan on drag racing your Muncie.

Be prepared that you will have to cut the floor. It's not pretty. But with carpet over it who cares.

Just some additional background, my problem was that I would shift from 1st to 2nd at the track and then go to shift into 3rd gear and the trans would be stuck in 2nd. I would have to get under the car and just move the shift lever back to neutral and then all was fine. It was the shifter that was internally jamming, not the linkage or the tranny.

I tried metal linkage bushings and a host of other adjustments along the way and never was able to solve it. Then I placed my call to Hurst tech and got turned on to the SS/3 shifter.

-gw

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406/M20 [email protected] 1.665 60' on a 4 speed
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 02, 07:49 AM
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Everything mentioned here is good. I've never had a problem with the Comp+ shifters and Muncies in the cars I drove.

But, the SS/3 shifter is nice, but, I like the Hurst Vertical Gate shifter. Nice piece of work.

Several items I would like to add:
1. Is the pivot ball in the ball housing the correct height for clutch being used? Might need to change it, there is a different height for 6-cyl & 8-cyl engines. And aftermarket has an adjustable height.
2. Check the Z-bar for straightness/squareness. You might even remove it and gusset the end arms to the tube and also weld in a 1 inch ring around the arm and tube perpendicular to the tube axis.
3. Get a short extending paint roller handle and insert it between the firewall and the upper A-arm. Leave the stick's nut sorta loose. Take the car out and shift it as in the track. Stop car and check length of extension. If it moved, firewall/subframe is moving.
4. GM re-engineered the clutch fork again. Make sure there is no cracks in the present one you're using.
5. If lengthening the adjustment rod, use a 3/8 spring bolt. Much stronger. I also took a Grade 8 1 inch nut, drilled a 3/8 inch hole in a flat, insert a hardened clevis pin, head inside, welded up the internal threads. Then, drill a hole for the adjustment rod as close to the edge of the nut. This is to cut down on the leverage beyween the rod and Z-bar. Use two Gr 8 nuts to adjust linkage.
6. Make sure the linkage is in a straight line and square with everybody else playing the game. Make adjustments if not.

After doing above, others and my post, punch a hole in the bellhousing to view the clutch plate, say 1-1 1/4 inch diameter. You will use this hole to adjust the clutch for .060-.070 inch spacing. Make and install a clutch stop on clutch pedal to stop stroke from going further than needed.

Remove the clutch pedal pad, place it in glove box. Practice on operating the pedal with a sideways motion. Keep right foot planted firmly at all times. Pull/push on shifter well before time to shift.

The above has worked for me for years. Good luck.....

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