454 Shopping - I NEED Advice - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 01, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Dave
 
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I'm thinking about building a 454. My thoughts were to pick up a used one for a half grand or so and build it.

What should I be looking for particularly. What about 454's out of trucks? Can I use them in my camaro? Are the heads workable? What else should I look at while I'm shopping around?

Thanks.

Dave
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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 01, 02:32 PM
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I have experimenting for some time with econ BB projects.i have learned_--buy a short block done up already. and go from there.
By the time you adress the crank rods and replace the pistons..... trust me get a buy a short block it saves time and money. they are advertised in all the mags for $1100.00or so. For hot street use any old peanut port heads will keep mixture velocity up and goooooobs of torque. For racing, some 049 heads are the econ way to go.
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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 01, 02:37 PM
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I understand that 454s are getting very difficult to find. Around Dallas, they can cost up to $1,000 for a rebuildable long block. 396s are a dime a dozen.
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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 01, 03:29 PM
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Hey Gene, if that's the case, I'll take a dozen. I'll have the 10 cents for you tomorrow. Will we need help with shipping arrangements..... I think we had this discussion before, I still disagree with you. I see just as many 454's for sale as 396's........

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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 01, 04:54 PM
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For an econ rebuild I'd stay away from the tall deck truck blocks. You have to get a special (read: expensive) manifold for it.

Here in the Phx. area there are still 454's aplenty. I'd try and find one still running in a vehicle - maybe buy the junk vehicle around it...pull the engine and then part the car out. Or just pull the engine out yourself.

I'd stay away from the "peanut ports" as well although some disagree. The regular oval ports have plenty of torque and you don't have to give up the high rpm's although the 454's don't like to rev too high. Not like a 427 anyway. But with 500 ft. lbs. torque how high do you need to wind 'em anyway?

good luck with your search...I pray to the Torque God myself.
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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 01, 06:43 PM
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YOu need a pre 1975 454 truck or car if you want the regular oval port heads.

Check them before you buy to be sure. I have seen some 75 peanut port heads. All after that are peanut port.

YOU can buy a short block warranty 454 from a dealer. You could rebuild the short block and Then buy some aftermarket heads.

It is REAL easy to sink a grand working a set of heads. So go aftermarket. IT is worth it.

I just spent over $5,000 on a 454. IF I did it again, I would buy a GM crate motor with a warranty.

Tim

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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 01, 07:28 PM
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I would'nt use the peanuts either, alot of good advise here.

If you are wanting to build it yourself or want it specifically built, build it. But anymore with competative machine shops and all the crate engines out there.

You would be better off going with A GM crate with the warranty.

There is'nt shicken out here for big blocks, the junkyards dont have a 1. Good luck
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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 01, 08:34 AM
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I got my 454 out of a 77 3/4 ton and it had oval ports. All the above is good advise, believe me.
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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 01, 11:26 AM
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I would think if a 77 had oval ports (and all do after 72) then it is the Peanut port oval ports and not the oval ports you would want to use.

What were the casting #s?

Have you seen both types before and know the difference??

Tim

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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 01, 12:19 PM
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once again opinions are like...bellybuttons.
everyone's got one. a street car is driven from idle to 5 grand poss 6. the peanut ports will flow up to 4800 with no diff in hp. but a huge diff in bottom end torque and driveability. big ovals are great but are ya gonna need/use the flow. Thats up to you. crate engines are great but we are losing the economy theme here. I built my chevelle into a 12 second daily driver screamer for 4 grand total car engine and all. that is economy to me. a 4-5 grand crate engine is not economy to me. Again just my thoughts MIlan
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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 01, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Some real good advice here. Thanks guys. I did look up the GM 454 HO motor. Sells for about $4200. If I buy a used motor, I'm thinking less than a grand for it. Can you build a 12 second 454 motor for less than $4200?

How do I spot a tall deck vs. regular? Is it obvious?

Gene, I think you've got it backwards. 454's are MUCH more common than 396's. If you find them so cheaply, let me know and I'll buy one from ya.

This came about cause I'm not happy with my 396 and rather than sink any money into it, why not get easy displacement with a 454, right! I'll tune the crap out of my current big block first though but I'm just not getting the head snapping, tire spinning performance out of it. A few folks I know are saying that my 3.08:1 rearend is what's keeping the car sluggish. I say the torque from a big block should overcome that. What's your experience??

Thanks.

Dave

[This message has been edited by Scooby Doo (edited 03-16-2001).]
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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 01, 02:49 PM
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Don't use peanut plug heads The problem is not the small intake volumn but the fact that they were designed to keep the exhaust in for more complete burning{smog not power} Have you ever wondered why 454 motor homes will actually melt the cast iron exhaust manifolds the heads are the reason

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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 01, 03:15 PM
 
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May I join in on the fray??

I thought that the "peanut" heads had the same size exhaust ports as all other bb heads, but just little bitty intake ports??

As for why a motorhome would melt the exhaust manifolds, It's not because of a choked up exhaust port, but rather the fact that the fuel mixture is probably a little off as is the timming and the big bugger is at a dead lug all the time from trying to move a tank!! IMHO, oger, thats all!!

I built my homemade 496 for between $3800/$4000 and it coulda been cheaper except for my new oval port Merlins in place of a perfectly good set of -781's. MarkM's gonna see it sunday, cause he's commin for a visit. Can't hardly wait!! pdq67



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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 01, 03:18 PM
 
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Back again. One new engine I wished I knew more about is the General's new 496BB truck engine with the 4.25" bore and 4.375" stroke!!

Wish I knew if it is a Gen VI engine or what??

Anybody know more then this??? pdq67



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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 01, 03:31 PM
 
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i got around 4200 in my 454, and it runs pretty strong. if your the kind of guy who likes to build the motor as well as the car, then get a seasoned rat, but do your homework first. but if you want a drop and drive engine then go crate. i got a untouched seasoned rat(454) looking for a new home if your interested. Zappo
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