Pulleys/brackets - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 02, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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I have a stock '67 Camaro 327/275. It has the factory correct AC, Ps, and Alt. I would like to install a nice billet or chrome pulley/bracket system. If you have istalled the pulleys and brackets as I wish to, who and where did you get the needed parts for a complete system. Dan
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 02, 06:36 PM
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Dan, DON'T DO IT! please learn from my mistake. I went with march serpentine belt system and had huge problems that cost way too much. I didn't have any brackets or pulleys to start with so I thought it would be a nice complete package that would look good but... had two different engineers look at the set up that came from march and both said it was the cause of the problems that march said was my fault and did nothing to help but continued to charge me for replacement pulleys. ended up having a cnc shop engineer help design an idler to fix the tension issue that was tearing up waterpumps from the belt side load on the pump pulley. I now have about $950.00 into a $500.00 pulley/bracket kit AND went through five waterpumps in two weeks as well as a brand new alluminum radiator and flex fan, went to an electric fan to help reduce weight on waterpump shaft,etc. I really wish I had been able to find the factory stuff and spent that money on anything else. to top it off, the serp belt squeeled like crazy until we added the custom idler that they said I didn't need.I still get some vibration at high rpms from the belt that just isn't right. march said I am the only one who has had this problem and told me I was doing something wrong. my advice is to chrome the factory stuff and put it right back on. I hope this doesn't sound like a slam on march performance but more the frustration I went through in trying to get to the cause of an expensive problem that had waterpump manufacturers saying one thing and pulley company saying the opposite and I ate the cost. maybe others have had better luck than me, definatly do some research before buying. Ivan
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 02, 07:08 PM
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Dan,

Just curious, what do you hope to gain by doing this? There is no benefit and as the previous reply points out you'll probably end up with problems and headaches. The aftermarket world of pumps and pulleys have many slight variances and you will end up probably needing to shim the pulleys to make them align properly. Mr. Gasket makes shims for the water pump pulley for this reason. You will probably find them on their website, if not I have the part numbers stashed away somewhere I can ge them for you. You'll be unhappy with the chrome because they will require constant attention, the billet looks neat, but I much prefer the factory appearance. I'd go with the factory deep groove pulleys myself. It sounds like you have a very nice original car. I'd think twice before bolting a lot of dress up stuff onto it. In the end most of it is disappointing for one reason or another, especially if it is only for appearance and doesn't improve performance in any way. But like I tell everyone, it's your car, make it what you want.

Dave
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 02, 07:17 PM
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another trick looking option would be to get the complete serpentine setup off a late model truck or Caprice or something. just make sure you get EVERYTHING that bolts to the front of the engine- including the AC compressor, alternator, and water pump. sure, custom AC lines might be needed, but some other oem application might be able to be made to work. with this setup, durability is a non-issue, due to the rigorous durability testing the GM engineers do, and it can be a junkyard score for pretty cheap. or you can order a complete setup from any GM dealer thru the performance parts catalog.
properly installed, this will look right at home under your hood.

------------------
1971 Nova(looks like 69 camaro from underneath!)
355sb, vortec heads, HOT cam,T-10 tranny, 3.70 gears 16X8" IROC wheels. 12" Corvette brakes on the way.
see pics here http://community.webshots.com/user/novaderrik
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 1st, 02, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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Nuff said...I'll take your advice. I'll keep it stock, nice and simple. Thanks. Dan
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 02, 03:31 AM
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I beg to differ with you good folks. The Concept One line of pulleys and brackets was developed to specifically provide a kit that completely included everything turnkey. The mistake someone made here was trying to get March systems which do NOT include and fit everything. We design everything from the engine up just like we make for the racing brackets and pulleys.

This system will not walk belts and is good for rpms up to 8K! It also contains a Tuff Stuff hipo water pump, KRC power steering pump, pulleys, brackets, Goodyear Gatorback belts, hardware,...with no shims or goofy pieces for adjustments. Goes on in an hour plus gives the correct pulley ratios (117%)for "overdriving" the high performance water pump (included with the kit, I might add) and alternator. Now, the stock air compressor goes on this set up replaced by a Sanden 508 which is far more efficient than the stocker. Comes in long and short pump configuration in polished or machine bright finishes. And, the combination of lower power robbing accessories like the high output water pump, modern air compressor, and power steering pumps makes for an increase in hp recovery but with increase in cooling flow and electrical generation. We got around 6 hp on the dyno difference!

Here is a picture of my 69s engine fresh off the dyno ready to go in with kit to boot.


And here is a picture installed.


What do you think?

------------------
STEVE JACK
ConceptOne Pulleys and Brackets
Northern/Southern Rodder Magazine's "Jack'Stands" author and creator
Techical forum/links at www.inccn.net/techforum.htm


[This message has been edited by HOTRODSRJ (edited 09-02-2002).]
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 02, 10:06 AM
 
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Has anyone else had problems with a March system ??? This is the first complaint I have heard about their set-ups.

I'm in a similar situation as NoBail.... I'm building a '69 Pro-touring car with a 355 SBC and I dont have any pulleys at all, so I'm looking for a complete set-up. I was planning on going with a March set-up but now I'm worried.......... I dont want a factory stock set-up, but I want something that works !!!

I have a hi output waterpump and a new stock PS pump and Vintage Air AC...... does Concept One make a set-up that would work .........
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 02, 01:16 PM
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steve, march performances' kit did come with everything THEY said was needed so I didn't think to question it. they were also reccomended to me by a streetrod guy that has street and performance pulleys on his '32 chevy sedan (who also owns a auto parts store and built lots of rods so I gave his opinion a lot of weight). the set up you have looks great and I like the belt routing, my system probably wouldn't have given any problems if I had an accessory on the pass side of the block, live and learn I guess. maybe there is something unique about the way my parts lined up and the brackets fit and even after I did some minor shimming, I may have done something wrong but it's really a straightforeward install. do you mind quoting a price on your system and what exactly is included or is that something that should be done off the board? I would almost consider spending more money at this point to make it right and add a/c at the same time. Ivan
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 02, 05:53 PM
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Steve,
Your systems do look really trick. It looks like you've done a lot of really great work detailing your engine bay and you should be proud of that. But you've got to remember that everyone in this hobby is in it for many different reasons looking for different results.

However I'm going to have to say while I admire the rodders craftsmanship, most of these applications are designed to resolve a particular installation when modifying a street rod due to the non-factory/trick setups many of these guys have to overcome. Accessories are placed extremely far away from each other resulting in runs of belts that most performance enthusiasts would ever consider using unless it was the only way to fit everything under his hood. It ends up looking very cluttered to me, but I know many would argue that they love it. I have no doubt it resolves an installation problem for a particular application. I prefer to keep everything as short a run as possible and deep groove the pulleys. I run 302s way beyond 8,000 and I'd never do it with the run length of belts in that system, but I don't doubt it'll do it, I just wouldn't try it myself.

I'm not knockin the street rod guys, when it comes to solving problems and overcoming obstacles they're the tops for ingenuity and usually their craftmanship is second to none. It's just not my style of the hobby. They do put out some beautiful machinery though. However when the fella posted on here asking what billet or chrome pulleys to use on his totally original car, I hate to send him down that road. I understand his wanting to make the car stand out a little more. There are just a lot of better ways of doing it with a car as nice as his. Those cars are best left as they are due to their rarity today. But again to each his own. I'm sure the rodder crowd would scratch their heads as they wonder what in the world I was thinking when they look at some of my projects too.

Just a difference of opinion. I feel there are many different groups within our hobby and all of them have different needs or values of what they feel a car should be. Doesn't make any of them right or wrong, just different. That is what makes going to shows and race tracks so much fun, if we were all the same it'd be boring!

Dave

[This message has been edited by SY1 (edited 09-02-2002).]
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 02, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry to create such a heated debate here guys. Basically, all I wanted to do was find nice billet or chrome pulleys to brighten up the engine bay. For example. I have a 3 groove crank, 2 groove water pump, 1 groove AC and Power steering. I just wanted to know who has a nice product out there that is either billet or chrome that fits my application. I never discard any stock parts, but also enjoy the beauty of nice billet pieces on a motor. A serpentine pulley system was not what I had meant. Dan
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 02, 06:16 PM
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Dan,
Take a look at some of the stuff from Zoops.WWW.zoops.com , I had all there V-belt polished Alum. pulleys on my small block and they looked awsome. They have a water pump pulley that has a bowtie cut out of it and really is a nice touch, its not over done. As a matter of fact I just bought all there brackets and pulleys for my 540 and it all bolted up with no mods at all. Good luck Rich
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 02, 07:44 AM
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i just got the zoops pulleys.

they look good but arent on. ill let you know how they install...
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 02, 07:50 AM
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Dan,

I got the MARCH pullies you are talking about for the 67' 327 in my 69. It is not the serp system and they look like they will be just fine. Seem to be same dimensions as stock pullies but are not on the engine yet.

Good luck,
Rob
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