Crankshaft pulley is in too far.. With pics - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 04, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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I finally had a nice day to work on my car. I'm adding power steering to my car. I was putting the p/s pump on and noticed that with the add on pulley added to my single pulley on cr/shaft it sits back too far toward block, a little over an 1/8"

Meaning that my p/s pump is not aligned with it. The pump sticks out too far. I don't see how I can move the pump back. I put a ruler across the cr/shaft pulley and the measurement above is the difference. I'm sure it's too much and will throw belts. I'm hoping someone makes a balanced shim to fit behind the single pulley. If you think the align difference won't be a problem that would be good to hear. Thanks

[ 03-28-2004, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: RamJam ]

1967 Camaro coupe Deluxe interior LT-1 350 w/ 4spd. M-21 trans and 12 bolt rear.


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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 04, 06:41 PM
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Have you checked my pulley info on my web site?
Are you using the low perf pulleys or the high performance deep groove pulleys?
Long water pump or short?
What is the number of the PS pulley you are using?
David

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 27th, 04, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, Dave I always check your site first.

Short water pump.

My alt hooks to rear single and w/pump pulleys. That has not changed and before I added p/s I never had a problem with it coming off. Hopefully I still won't.

Yes, low perf pulleys all from same 67 327 donar camaro except my inside single pulley from old setup. That's another problem the pump pulley is bent slightly you really notice it when you spin it. How hard are they to remove and straighten and can it be done while on car, the removing of it?

I did go with a new p/s pump brakt and adjuster brkt the hp one for 67-68 Z/28's. The adjuster brkt thickness does make up the difference in alignment problem. Meaning that that is the thickness of alignment problem but I have to use it. Thanks

[ 03-27-2004, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: RamJam ]
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 04, 08:29 AM
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The PS pump pulley should come off by hand once the nut is removed. You should be able to do this while it is on the car. DON'T hammer it back on! the pump can be damaged inside. Pull it on with the nut.

Watch the Woodriff key on the shaft, it can stick up far enough to cause install problems, plus the key can often slip out and jam behind the pulley when installing.

If your pump has no nut or key, then it's a post 74 press on type, and has a larger shaft. There is a special puller made for those.

I don't know of any good way to straighten a bent pulley.
I used your same combo on my 67 and had to shim the pump forward with one washer on each bolt, so I'm suprised yours line up the other way.

I'm wondering if your pump has the correct pulley?

The PS insert pulley nests inside the crank pulley and there are a couple of pilot registers in the crank alt pulley that stick up. You cant easily space between those two pulleys because you will lose your register. You can space between the crank and first pulley if you make a large flat spacer plate. There are aluminum aftermarket three groove pulleys too.
David

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 04, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
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Dave,

Maybe this pulley is shimmed forward but it looks like it's never been off?

BTW: There is about a 1/8 of play in pulley pump shaft in and out. Is that normal? It's not loose it just moves that much.

Yea, I know about the raised ares on the pulley for orientation. Yea, No way to shim there.

This pump came with a double pulley but back looks the same as my single so I don't think it would make a difference. The # is something like 3850838 BG. If you need it I'll get exact.

I found this link before I posted mine but wasn't sure about having to use spacer. Are you sure it's safe to use an alum spacer as long as it covers the whole area? Like I said the offset is an 1/8 but I'd have to say it's more like 5/32. If I use 1/8 inch alum will I be close enough?

https://www.camaros.net/forum/ultimat...=010142#000000

This shows the problem and you can see I have the old p/s pump. You can see the w/pump pulley too.




This one shows align with strt edge.



Thanks

[ 03-29-2004, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: RamJam ]

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 04, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Do you think the small block was different on 1970-1/2 LT1-350's? Compared to 67-68 small blocks? Where the p/s pump brkt bolts on. Could this be the problem?

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 04, 06:33 PM
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The short water pump uses a different PS pump than the long water pump. Make sure you have the correct PS pump.

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 04, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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TJ,

It is the 67-68 style p/s pump. Thanks

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 04, 10:24 PM
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Is the block machined flat where the pump bolts on?
If it is, then that's all that can be done. I have seen blocks unmachined on the passenger side.

The PS pump bracket uses a thick washer on the front bolt, make sure the washer is still there or the pump may ride too far forward.

The pulley fits on the shaft and the shaft has a key. There is just one nut that holds the pulley on. You hold the pulley with a wrench using the two flat spots on the pulley and turn the nut, then slide off the pulley. Watch for the key so you don't lose it. Your end play is typical, they have lots of end play. Some of it may be due to wear. If you can pull the shaft into alignment, then just put a belt on and use it. The pulley will probably align itself. I'd try it and see.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 28th, 04, 11:25 PM
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The pump for a 67 or 68 should be for a short pump. Measure the length of the shaft and maybe you can compare it to a short and a long version. Note: The big blocks are different also !

69 Camaro -originally a LM1 car. 327, Edelbrock E-streets, hooker, DUI performance distributors, ultradyne cam, stewart, TRW etc. Vintage Air, AGR steering, Corbeau GTSII seats, 700R4 transmission, 12-bolt w/Eaton 4.11:1
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 29th, 04, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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David,

Below is a pic of my block where pump brkt bolts on. This looks like the problem. What do you think? I guess I'm going to have to either grind a 1/8" off of those bosses or shim the crank pulleys, which would you do?

What do you think is the best way to do this grind or cutoff wheel? While in the car with frontend intact. The threads are about 7/8" deep so it shouldn't hurt to lose an 1/8". Thanks


1967 Camaro coupe Deluxe interior LT-1 350 w/ 4spd. M-21 trans and 12 bolt rear.


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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 29th, 04, 11:07 AM
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That looks like a normal block. Scape away the paint and it should be a flat machined surface. Maybe if you get rid of some of the paint it will fit better.

Is your pump pulley marked 3770509?
David

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 29th, 04, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Ok David,

Here's what I did so far. I really don't want to shim the cr/shft unless I absolutely have to. So I ground down the hex area of both studs on back of pump stuck 2 1/16" washers in between the brkt and pump in the front. Ground down the back of the adjuster brakt about .030 where it bolts behind the pump brkt and right to the block. I bolted the pump back in place and I'm now only 1/16 off. Do you think that will be ok or do I have to grind a little off the block too?

BTW: Those washers are really in there tight I had to tap them in. I hope it's not too much pressure on the pump.

Is that a left hand thread on that pump pulley? I can't get it to budge? I'll let you know about the pump pulley number. I have to take it off to read it. Is there anyway to tell if the pump is good before adding all the p/s fluid and running it? Thanks

[ 03-29-2004, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: RamJam ]

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 30th, 04, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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bump

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old Mar 30th, 04, 02:33 PM
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I have exactly the same problem.

I don't know why but the spacing is off by the thickness of the adjustment bracket, the one that sandwiches between the pump mount and the block.

If the adjustment bracket is removed everything on mine aligns perfectly. The pulleys used are new GM replacement pulleys.

To "fix" the problem I used the standard non-Z-28 adjustment bracket, the one that only mounts to the engine mount. Everything works and aligns correctly.

I don't believe that there is a difference between long and short accessory drive power steering pump shafts. Early versions have the keyway, later models the press-on pulley. David, do you have both to compare a housing to shaft end length?


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