HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 07:00 AM Thread Starter
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Cory
 
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HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

So I built my new motor and tried & failed to install it few days ago. It did not go well at all... The New Oil Pan I purchased is way to big in the front lower sump section! This Pan https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...make/chevrolet. Its hitting the center steering Bar. I know I can try to cut it up and have it welded to make it fit - However, I am wondering if any of you guys know if a Bolt on pan this will work with my setup? I want a street strip type pan, not just a stock-er if possible. I am sure someone else has run into this issue. Please share some knowledge with me.

Thanks, Arkangel77
Cory C.
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 07:13 AM
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Don
 
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

Unless others don't have suggestions, take a look here. These are good pans. There are some 6 qt and 8 but I am not finding 7 qt.
Champ Pans | Search Products

Any chance your motor mount stands are incorrect?

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 07:43 AM
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

I just installed a 461 BBC in my 69 last year and I have Moroso Oil pan #20449,and Moroso oil pump pick up 24449 installed. They fit and clear everything. It is a 5 QT oil pan. That is my recommendation. I am speaking from my own personal experience.

1969 SS Garnet Red X55 350 Factory 4 speed
12 Bolt 3.55 Posi
461 BBC TKO600
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 07:50 AM
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 69 View Post
I just installed a 461 BBC in my 69 last year and I have Moroso Oil pan #20449,and Moroso oil pump pick up 24449 installed. They fit and clear everything. It is a 5 QT oil pan. That is my recommendation. I am speaking from my own personal experience.
Kinda what I was thinking but he is leaning to a 7 qt pan. I know many on the market pans have the same front half as thats the way they are "born" but the rear section always changes to customer needs.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 08:01 AM
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

There are five different BBC oil pans:
one is a four quart that fits all passenger cars from 1965 to 1974 (Mark IV engines), another two pans that holds five or seven quarts fits all light and medium duty cars from 1965 to 1990 (Mark IV engines),
and of course the five quart oil pan that only fits a Corvette chassis from 1965 through '74 which was also a Mark IV block, but it will not fit a car chassis as the motor is set much further back in a Corvette.

After 1990 with the introduction of the Gen V one piece rear main seal you need to buy an aftermarket oil pan as nothing made by GM will fit in a car chassis. They were only installed in light trucks and as such they are going to interfere with a car chassis. This is because in a light truck the front cross member is farther below the engine than in a car.

If your 454 or later block that you rebuilt as a 427 to a 496 has a one piece rear main seal you will need a Moroso (or Steff''s, or Miliodon or any one else who makes these pans) seven quart oil pan with kick outs to allow you to lower your Camaro. A drag racing or marine pan will have far too deep of a sump to allow your lowered Camaro to clear a speed bump. The factory five quart oil pan used on all light trucks will not clear the front frame cross-member without modifying the pan or the cross-member.

All of GMPP's crate engine also come with a five quart light truck oil pan that will not fit a car and if you read the instruction sheet it tells you on the bottom of the second page to change that pan and oil pump pick-up out with an aftermarket one unless you are installing your 454/502 or 572 into a pick-up truck. GM still doesn't make a passenger car oil pan for a one piece rear main seal as they only put BBC's into trucks (the last car that had a BBC in it left the factory in 1974), and all production on the BBC ended in 2004, so there isn't much demand.

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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
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Cory
 
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

on My Setup - The rear is Fine, the Front is the Issue. And you are correct I was leaning towards a 7 Quart pan. I may still try to cut mine up and have it welded to make it fit. I was just hopping there was a Bolt On option for me =). I do appreciate the Input guys!

1968 Firebird - Gen IV 496 Stroker - TH400 - Caltrax rear suspension system w/slider boxes - Corporate Posi Rear with New Axel's - Long Tube Headers, Pypes Race Pro Dual Exhaust and Lotsa other Goodies =)
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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Cory
 
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larger Dave View Post
There are five different BBC oil pans:
one is a four quart that fits all passenger cars from 1965 to 1974 (Mark IV engines), another two pans that holds five or seven quarts fits all light and medium duty cars from 1965 to 1990 (Mark IV engines),
and of course the five quart oil pan that only fits a Corvette chassis from 1965 through '74 which was also a Mark IV block, but it will not fit a car chassis as the motor is set much further back in a Corvette.

After 1990 with the introduction of the Gen V one piece rear main seal you need to buy an aftermarket oil pan as nothing made by GM will fit in a car chassis. They were only installed in light trucks and as such they are going to interfere with a car chassis. This is because in a light truck the front cross member is farther below the engine than in a car.

If your 454 or later block that you rebuilt as a 427 to a 496 has a one piece rear main seal you will need a Moroso (or Steff''s, or Miliodon or any one else who makes these pans) seven quart oil pan with kick outs to allow you to lower your Camaro. A drag racing or marine pan will have far too deep of a sump to allow your lowered Camaro to clear a speed bump. The factory five quart oil pan used on all light trucks will not clear the front frame cross-member without modifying the pan or the cross-member.

All of GMPP's crate engine also come with a five quart light truck oil pan that will not fit a car and if you read the instruction sheet it tells you on the bottom of the second page to change that pan and oil pump pick-up out with an aftermarket one unless you are installing your 454/502 or 572 into a pick-up truck. GM still doesn't make a passenger car oil pan for a one piece rear main seal as they only put BBC's into trucks (the last car that had a BBC in it left the factory in 1974), and all production on the BBC ended in 2004, so there isn't much demand.

Big Dave
I am very sorry for leaving that Critical bit of Info out! I have a Gen IV block with a TWO piece rear main seal. I really should have stated that in the original Post

1968 Firebird - Gen IV 496 Stroker - TH400 - Caltrax rear suspension system w/slider boxes - Corporate Posi Rear with New Axel's - Long Tube Headers, Pypes Race Pro Dual Exhaust and Lotsa other Goodies =)
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 09:07 AM
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

Moroso and Milodon both make increased capacity oil pans that will meet your needs.

1969 SS Garnet Red X55 350 Factory 4 speed
12 Bolt 3.55 Posi
461 BBC TKO600
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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Cory
 
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 69 View Post
Moroso and Milodon both make increased capacity oil pans that will meet your needs.
Have you used one in this type of application?

1968 Firebird - Gen IV 496 Stroker - TH400 - Caltrax rear suspension system w/slider boxes - Corporate Posi Rear with New Axel's - Long Tube Headers, Pypes Race Pro Dual Exhaust and Lotsa other Goodies =)
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 11:43 AM
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

Yes, as I stated in my first post, I have a Moroso 5 quart oil pan. The increased capacity oil pans are the same, except for having a deeper sump in the back of the pan to accommodate the extra oil. If you order the correct one for your application, it will fit. Just make sure that you get the matching oil pump pick up.

1969 SS Garnet Red X55 350 Factory 4 speed
12 Bolt 3.55 Posi
461 BBC TKO600
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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Cory
 
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 69 View Post
Yes, as I stated in my first post, I have a Moroso 5 quart oil pan. The increased capacity oil pans are the same, except for having a deeper sump in the back of the pan to accommodate the extra oil. If you order the correct one for your application, it will fit. Just make sure that you get the matching oil pump pick up.
Just got off the phone with summit - Wish it was just that easy. I need to go home and take some measurements of my current pan and then ima call back and see if I can get a pan that will work.

Its not a stock motor in there, its not stock motor mounts. Without dimensions of the available pans or someone who has the same exact setup and can give a part number they know will work - its like shooting in the Dark and trying to hit the target....

The mounts that are in there are from a mid 70's Camaro. So that I guess is also a factor

1968 Firebird - Gen IV 496 Stroker - TH400 - Caltrax rear suspension system w/slider boxes - Corporate Posi Rear with New Axel's - Long Tube Headers, Pypes Race Pro Dual Exhaust and Lotsa other Goodies =)
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 02:37 PM
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 69 View Post
Yes, as I stated in my first post, I have a Moroso 5 quart oil pan. The increased capacity oil pans are the same, except for having a deeper sump in the back of the pan to accommodate the extra oil. If you order the correct one for your application, it will fit. Just make sure that you get the matching oil pump pick up.
This assumes you have the correct frame stands and matching motor mounts for the BBC.

Big Dave
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Cory
 
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larger Dave View Post
This assumes you have the correct frame stands and matching motor mounts for the BBC.

Big Dave
Exactly Dave, This car was set up B4 I purchased it. I bought a stuck Camaro Trans mount and everything lined up so that is sitting in the correct spot, I am not sure of the exact method used for the Motor Mounts. From some research I did last year - I believe it was a kit of some sort that was purchased then installed, mounting plates were welded on the original sub-frame - this Kit or adapter plates or whatever then allowed the use of the later model motor mounts to be bolted into place. Everything seems to fit and line up correctly. The Old oil pan fit with no problem, I think it was a stock smaller volume pan, but beyond that I have no data on it. Unfortunately I no longer have that pan. If I did this would be a Lot easier. I could just match the new pan to the old one dimensionaly and I would be all set. BUT - its gone so I have an more difficult task with this oil pan.

1968 Firebird - Gen IV 496 Stroker - TH400 - Caltrax rear suspension system w/slider boxes - Corporate Posi Rear with New Axel's - Long Tube Headers, Pypes Race Pro Dual Exhaust and Lotsa other Goodies =)
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Cory
 
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

PS - this is the exact mount Insert I purchased from Summit that fits the mounts that are on my Car.

for whatever this is worth.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/e...model/firebird

1968 Firebird - Gen IV 496 Stroker - TH400 - Caltrax rear suspension system w/slider boxes - Corporate Posi Rear with New Axel's - Long Tube Headers, Pypes Race Pro Dual Exhaust and Lotsa other Goodies =)
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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 05:28 PM
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Re: HELP with Oil Pan for 454 BBC in a 1st gen plz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkangel77 View Post
PS - this is the exact mount Insert I purchased from Summit that fits the mounts that are on my Car.

for whatever this is worth.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/e...model/firebird
What do your frame stands look like? Why not take a measurement from the frame to the engine block to get the height. The total height of 67 & 68 Camaros is LH- 3 11/16 and RH- 3 15/16. The 69 Camaro has a total height of LH 3 5/8 & RH 3 3/4.
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