Holley 80457s problems - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Holley 80457s problems

My 1yr old 600 cfm, electric choke, vac adv secondary carb is creating problems that I need help on. My engine is
A 355 with a unknown cam ( maybe a 327/ 350 hp), headers, pertronix ign. 4 speed with wide ratio gears, 3:73 posi
Things done so far: reset trans slot to .020, opened vac sec blades to .020, set acc pump arm to .015, idle speed
Jets 2 turns open, vacumn ???. Also chg'd to# 34 squirter. 14 deg init advance, 36 deg total.
Problem is : when running down road, if I push the pedal slightly quick, I get a hesitation then it goes like heck. Don't know what else to do? Hate that hesitation or bog. Appreciate all help. I'm not good with carbs. Thanks.

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 2nd, 16, 03:40 PM
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by JERRYS 69 Z View Post
My 1yr old 600 cfm, electric choke, vac adv secondary carb is creating problems that I need help on. My engine is
A 355 with a unknown cam ( maybe a 327/ 350 hp), headers, pertronix ign. 4 speed with wide ratio gears, 3:73 posi
Things done so far: reset trans slot to .020, opened vac sec blades to .020, set acc pump arm to .015, idle speed
Jets 2 turns open, vacumn ???. Also chg'd to# 34 squirter. 14 deg init advance, 36 deg total.
Problem is : when running down road, if I push the pedal slightly quick, I get a hesitation then it goes like heck. Don't know what else to do? Hate that hesitation or bog. Appreciate all help. I'm not good with carbs. Thanks.
Jerry...opening the vacuum operated secondaries early can cause the issue you describe with the fuel/air mixture being off during the initial punch. You could try changing to a slightly heavier secondary spring in order that the engine will get the proper fuel delivery signal to the venturi. Opening too quickly can cause "bogging or flat spotting".

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 16, 06:25 AM
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

Jerry, you might also need a bigger squirter to give you a bigger shot of fuel from the accelerator pump when you hit it. Is the bog off idle, or is it at full throttle?

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 16, 06:41 AM
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

Any chance of you hooking up a vacumn gauge and a 6 ft piece of vac hose to the engine and go drive this thing and monitor the vac gauge. Any other chance the secondary fuel distribution not helping out? Do you have a PV in the secondary block?

Don
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 16, 07:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

Thanks for replies :

Karl-- I have installed vac sec spring adapter. Easy now to change springs. Will try.

Matt--orig squirted was #31. 34 may be a hair better.

Don--this carb does not have sec block, so no pv in rear.

Will try diff vac sec springs and will open idle screws to 2 1/4 turns per another thread.

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 16, 07:42 AM
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

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Originally Posted by JERRYS 69 Z View Post
Thanks for replies :



Will try diff vac sec springs and will open idle screws to 2 1/4 turns per another thread.
Or even disconnect the secondarys opening diaphram rod, just to see what happens. I have seen guys slip a paper clip on the diaphram rod against the body, just to detect any movement at all.

Don
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 16, 07:52 AM
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I have a pertronix flamethrower distributor. When i installed mine there were three different sets of springs for the mechanical advance. I tried all three before i found the perfect set up. One set made idle/performance/acceleration kind of herky jerky on my 383.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 16, 11:36 AM
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by JERRYS 69 Z View Post
My 1yr old 600 cfm, electric choke, vac adv secondary carb is creating problems that I need help on. My engine is
A 355 with a unknown cam ( maybe a 327/ 350 hp), headers, pertronix ign. 4 speed with wide ratio gears, 3:73 posi
Things done so far: reset trans slot to .020, opened vac sec blades to .020, set acc pump arm to .015, idle speed
Jets 2 turns open, vacumn ???. Also chg'd to# 34 squirter. 14 deg init advance, 36 deg total.
Problem is : when running down road, if I push the pedal slightly quick, I get a hesitation then it goes like heck. Don't know what else to do? Hate that hesitation or bog. Appreciate all help. I'm not good with carbs. Thanks.
Unless that is a 4 corner idle you don't want the secondary throttle blades opened any at all. That's a hack used to get the engine to idle when wrong carb and too big of cam! Look up the carbs factory settings and put everything back like it came (or should have) out of the box and start the tuning process over but work it one circuit at a time!

Set the idle and idle mixture and test drive. Adjust timing +-2 deg and retest. If bog off idle, work the accelerator pump and squinters. When off idle is good but it bogs going full throttle start working on the vac sec diaphragm springs.

Keep in mind timing can effect this so after each carb adjustment made test with different timing settings +- 2deg changes before going back to the carb other than adjusting the idle.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 16, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

Tried 2 1/4 turns out with idle screw and changed from purple to plain sec springs. Think it got worse. Now have
Slight surging around 70 mph. Am going back to orig factory specs, but idle screws were 3/4 on pass side and 1
Turn open on driver side. Don't know how that will run like that. What do you think about changing main jets?
Need lots of help.

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 16, 12:50 PM
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

These are fairly good out of the box carbs for stock to slightly modified engines. Questions for you: did you install the Pertronix before or after the carb? If before, were you experiencing the problems or if you installed the Pertronix after is that when your problems occurred. You have made a lot of changes and are self admittedly weak in the area of carburetion. About the only thing you have not changed yet is the jets. As inexpensive as thes are get a couple of pairs two sizes up and two sizes down. Start by going up one size and drive it to where you experienced problems and note if they are better or worse. Are they still there but at a higher or lower speed. First thing however is a good old fashioned plug reading with a magnifying glass. I agree with others in that you should return the carb to out of box settings and then check the basics such as fuel filter ( I run two filters fore and aft of the fuel pump) then check your fuel pump pressure perhaps installing a permanent gauge inline between fuel pump and carb (fittings and gauge cost about $25) . Check for vacuum leaks by spraying some carb cleaner around the intake manifold where it joins the head and listen to your engine. Do the same around the base of the carb. How is your float level? I don't believe this model carb has sight plugs so it may entail removing the float bowl. If you do that take care when reassembling so you don't have a fuel leak at either end of the transfer tube by putting a dab of silicone grease spread around the end of the tube going into the grommet. I am really curious about a plug reading. Any chance you could pull them and post a photo of them so some of the guys can take a look at them. They can tell a lot to an experienced eye. Checking plugs is one of the first things I do anytime I install new performance parts. I have also found that my engines run much smoother if you run Iridium plugs with a Pertronix. Yeah, they are $8 apiece but will last in excess of 100,000 miles. Hope this helps and best wishes for finding the gremlin. Hopefully it turns out to be something simple.

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 10th, 16, 06:56 PM
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

change the pump cam and you could raise the main jets a few sizes, just to see,

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 16, 06:12 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

Will and randy -- thanks for the advice. One thingI forgot to mention Is the carb is mounted on my orig Z 28
Intake manifold. Problem ? Also, engine idles fine. This coming week is a busy week for me, so it will be the
Following week before I can get to it, but I will update after that. Thanks again. Jerry

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 12th, 16, 11:49 PM
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

Jerry: The Z-28 manifold may have some bearing on your woes. Sounds like a little bit of mix and match going on in the engine department. Is it possible your heads and cam are Z parts also? Is your cam hydraulic or mechanical. You may have the butterfly effect going on without knowing it. As you may or may not know the 69 Z-28s came with Holley 780 CFM mechanical secondary carbs. If your heads and cam are also Z-28 components that 600 CFM Holley you have may well be too small and no amount of tuning is going to bring it up close to the mechanical 780.

If you are not sure whether or not your heads are Z-28 shoot me the part numbers cast in the head surface (gonna have to remove the valve covers to determine) if you happen to do that look for a valve that is closed and push down hard on the rocker arm directly above the pushrods to see if it goes down a bit ( hydraulic) or if is rock solid ( mechanical) . Let me know and I'll look up the casting numbers on your heads and let you know what they came from.

There is also the chance that whoever put your engine together used low horsepower heads on which you have a high horsepower intake manifold which would yield who knows what from a tuning perspective. Look forward to hearing from you.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 16, 06:17 AM
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwallman View Post
Jerry: The Z-28 manifold may have some bearing on your woes. Sounds like a little bit of mix and match going on in the engine department. Is it possible your heads and cam are Z parts also? Is your cam hydraulic or mechanical. You may have the butterfly effect going on without knowing it. As you may or may not know the 69 Z-28s came with Holley 780 CFM mechanical secondary carbs. If your heads and cam are also Z-28 components that 600 CFM Holley you have may well be too small and no amount of tuning is going to bring it up close to the mechanical 780.

If you are not sure whether or not your heads are Z-28 shoot me the part numbers cast in the head surface (gonna have to remove the valve covers to determine) if you happen to do that look for a valve that is closed and push down hard on the rocker arm directly above the pushrods to see if it goes down a bit ( hydraulic) or if is rock solid ( mechanical) . Let me know and I'll look up the casting numbers on your heads and let you know what they came from.

There is also the chance that whoever put your engine together used low horsepower heads on which you have a high horsepower intake manifold which would yield who knows what from a tuning perspective. Look forward to hearing from you.
Will, just to clarify, 69 Z28's came with 780 Vacuum secondary carburetors. The only engines that came equipped with mechanical secondary carburetors from the factory were the ZL1's. The cross ram set up used mechanical secondary carburetors as well, but it was not a factory offered option.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 16, 09:24 AM
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Re: Holley 80457s problems

My mistake. You are absolutely correct. I have a DZ 302 sitting in my shop for sale. Before it was swapped out for a 427 my cousin had the car in a shop having a new front subframe installed and some unscrupulous wretch stole the original Holley 780 that was stamped identifying it as a DZ CARB followed by the GM # followed by the Holley list #. So that the theft would go unnoticed the thief replaced the DZ carb with a Holley 7?? Mechanical. Not sure what I was thinking when I wrote that the DZs were mechanical. My error and I own it. Apologies to all.

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