421 help? need more power - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
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421 help? need more power

Well after 4 years of looking here for help during my ground up assembly on my 67 and getting ideas that made me spend more than planned, from mini tubbing to 4 link I just signed up and was hoping for a few ideas on what my motor is missing, my guess is the heads, I know there are more than a few good running engines on here so any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I want to know what some of you would do to get the most out of this big inch small block for a bad street engine? The engine runs great and does go really strong just want more.
I also run this through Richmond 5 speed (non overdrive) with 3.28 1st gear to ford 9 inch with 3.50 gear
Here is what I have
dart shp block,
vic jr intake,
holley 850dp,
scat 3.875 crank,
I-beam 6 inch rods,
12cc dish pistons, close to 11:1 comp (96 octane)
heads are 64cc vic jr, 215, w/ 2.08 int., 1.65
Howards hyd. roller
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,800-6,400
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 247
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 253
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 247 int./253 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 300
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 306
Advertised Duration: 300 int./306 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.565 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.580 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.562 int./0.580 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 110
I want to know what some of you would do to get the most out of this big inch small block? I plan on doing something this winter just not sure what, would having these heads ported be a waste of money or should I look to some afr heads? maybe my cam choice sucks for this combo? just not sure
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 07:15 AM
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Re: 421 help? need more power

Ok Why do you feel it's lacking power?

Low End? Top End?

The Richmond and F9 eat power too.

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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 07:36 AM
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Re: 421 help? need more power

Re-build it with a 4" stroke and bigger bore and better flowing heads ?
add two turbos ?

1968 Butternut Coupe,
421" Dart SHP block
TKO 600 RR
Dutchman 9" w/3.70 US Gear Lightning r&p
Speedtech torque arm,Ridetech HQ coilovers
Global West arms
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 421 help? need more power

I think I was just expecting more out of it, I have a 406 with dart iron eagle heads with 460 hp in my 65 chevelle and even though the Camaro feels so much faster I wanted more. My Camaro turns on later around 3500 and pulls to 6300 and I know it not a comparable set up with the 406 that was built for low and mid.
I got the heads new in box for free and used them for that reason but it seems research shows nobody really using these on bigger sbc. I put the entire motor package together and kind of assumed that it probably isn't ideal seeing I have very little to no motor building experience. I am hoping someone point something out that could have been done better. I want more power through out the entire power band
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 421 help? need more power

Ilikeike, that may be down the road sometime, right now I will go as far as heads and cam, I should take it to NEdragway and see what it runs in the 1/4 maybe its all in my head. The few people I have driven in it all cant get over the power
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 08:58 AM
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Re: 421 help? need more power

Judging from what you have, I would suggest going to better flowing heads to support that cam.
You have lots of duration, numbers are odd to me, Can you provide Howards cam number?
I am guessing this is your cam? Howards Cams CL180345-10 1987 - 1998 Chevrolet 305/350 Hydraulic Roller 2600 to 6400 Camshaft & Lifter Kit

I also agree to what Vega$$69 said. Maybe you need a Lenco.

When you said 421, that made me think of the Pontiac 421.

Don
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Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 421 help? need more power

howards retrofit cam #110345-10, I picked the cam also so it could be a mismatch, I guess I was hoping there was an obvious red flag to what I put together for parts but I think I should have it dyno tested before I make any changes
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 10:52 AM
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Re: 421 help? need more power

Thought so, I would still look at better flowing heads. There is a cam master on this site, name is Chris Straub. He also grinds cams. I would suggest you look him up and get cam advise from him.
https://www.camaros.net/forums/member...0-cstraub.html
Goes by "cstraub"

Your cam and motor is larger than mine, but your heads are larger than mine so as you mentioned, you probably have a mismatch. Maybe too much cam?

Don
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Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 11:24 AM
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Re: 421 help? need more power

I'm running this Howards cam on a small base circle core in my 421 with AFR 210 heads,Edelbrock RPM intake, It's maybe one size smaller than your profile.

Howards Cams 110275-10 1955 - 1998 Chevrolet 262-400 Hydraulic Roller 2600 to 6400 Camshaft

I'm pretty happy with it.

While I wait on my Budnik wheels to show up.... I've been running a 245/45 on a 17"x7" wheel(lol) 3.50 rear and a TKO 600, second gear rolling on the throttle will easily break loose the rear,it's kinda fun.

1968 Butternut Coupe,
421" Dart SHP block
TKO 600 RR
Dutchman 9" w/3.70 US Gear Lightning r&p
Speedtech torque arm,Ridetech HQ coilovers
Global West arms
Budnik wheels

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 11:27 AM
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Re: 421 help? need more power

I'd be looking into porting the heads and having a custom cam ground to better match them afterwards.

For the heads, I'd contact Chad Speier at Speier Racing Heads or Larry Meaux at Meaux Racing Heads. Both of these men are superb at what they do.

With 421" and those heads, I think your engine could use a Super Victor intake, or at least have the Victor fully ported.

Chris Straub can spec you a cam as can several other sources such as Bullet, Crane, etc. (not really a fan of COMP, sorry). I personally use Crane on 99% of everything I build.

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 421 help? need more power

Thanks for the replys today,I guess I shouldn't have made it sound like my motor was numb looking back at how I started my post, This car does go really good and will ignite nitto 315 drag radial at 10 mph when I nail it and I did get 85 mph in 3rd gear and it got there very quick, I think I should have just asked what could be done to make it better. I have a brand new super vic for the big base carb 4500? and holley 750 street dominator that came with the car but hood clearance seems to be a problem where I only have a 2 inch cowl hood. I was wondering if it may be worth trying 1.6 rocker arms, not sure on the gains or if timing may need to be advanced a touch. Its at 32 degrees at full advance but that was set for pump gas. I am running a mix of av gas and ethanol free at about 96 octane. I also have 1 7/8 headers with 3.5 col and wasn't sure if thats too big? those run into 3 in with x pipe and dump in front of rear wheels. I will take the advice and call some of the guys you mentioned later this fall when Im closer to parking it for winter, thanks for the names I have seen them mentioned a ton here in my research.
Also Ilikeike you are running a dual plane and I was wondering if that was an option or If I should stick with single, I want to get the car as close to strip as possible but still be street driven all I have read says single plane for big sbc
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 02:06 PM
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Re: 421 help? need more power

My car will be 95% street around town in the 2500-3500 rpm range most of the time. Some autocross.
Good off idle torque with the dual plane was my plan.
Sounds like you'll be using a little more rpm out of your car than me. Single plane sounds like the best choice for you.

1968 Butternut Coupe,
421" Dart SHP block
TKO 600 RR
Dutchman 9" w/3.70 US Gear Lightning r&p
Speedtech torque arm,Ridetech HQ coilovers
Global West arms
Budnik wheels

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 02:27 PM
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Re: 421 help? need more power

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadwick23 View Post
Thanks for the replys today,I guess I shouldn't have made it sound like my motor was numb looking back at how I started my post, This car does go really good and will ignite nitto 315 drag radial at 10 mph when I nail it and I did get 85 mph in 3rd gear and it got there very quick, I think I should have just asked what could be done to make it better. I have a brand new super vic for the big base carb 4500? and holley 750 street dominator that came with the car but hood clearance seems to be a problem where I only have a 2 inch cowl hood. I was wondering if it may be worth trying 1.6 rocker arms, not sure on the gains or if timing may need to be advanced a touch. Its at 32 degrees at full advance but that was set for pump gas. I am running a mix of av gas and ethanol free at about 96 octane. I also have 1 7/8 headers with 3.5 col and wasn't sure if thats too big? those run into 3 in with x pipe and dump in front of rear wheels. I will take the advice and call some of the guys you mentioned later this fall when Im closer to parking it for winter, thanks for the names I have seen them mentioned a ton here in my research.
Also Ilikeike you are running a dual plane and I was wondering if that was an option or If I should stick with single, I want to get the car as close to strip as possible but still be street driven all I have read says single plane for big sbc
Before you start throwing parts that YOU like , it would benefit you to contact Straub on total cam lift.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 02:58 PM
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Re: 421 help? need more power

I had a 406 with heads similar to them I'd guess, cam was a solid roller with 10* more than where you are @ .634 lift with 1.6's, which went 11.302 @ 119.05.
I feel if nothing else, some 230cc heads would help due to your cubic inches.

Also, wring it out some....7000 should be easy.

68 Camaro~LSx ~all motor
1.54 60'--6.95 @ 98.45 660'--10.96 @ 121.53
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old Sep 7th, 16, 05:25 PM
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Re: 421 help? need more power

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUG G View Post
I had a 406 with heads similar to them I'd guess, cam was a solid roller with 10* more than where you are @ .634 lift with 1.6's, which went 11.302 @ 119.05.
I feel if nothing else, some 230cc heads would help due to your cubic inches.

Also, wring it out some....7000 should be easy.
Doug, true on wring it out, but don't you feel he needs to dyno first, to see where power falls off? Not to say the motor won't do it but I always ask why. Would like to see his dyno sheet.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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