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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 28th, 16, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

Once I verify for sure that my cam doesn't have a fuel pump lobe, I'm going to install a Holley blue electric fuel pump and regulator. Is there anything wrong with what I'm planning?

-Hard connect the regulator to the fuel pump back by the tank with a pressure gauge in a fitting.
-Use the factory style steel fuel lines up to the mechanical pump, but bypassing it.
-Run from the mech. fuel pump end to a dual feed line with another fuel pressure gauge.

Instead of spending another fortune, I'm planning on running a Spectre dual feed line, but upgrading the gauge. It seems to get good reviews.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-29683

'69 SS396 X66 L34 08D M21 BS
460ci Gen VI 9.75:1 AED 950 carb
241/249 @ .050" .625/.625 110 LSA

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 28th, 16, 11:23 AM
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

Supply ign controlled relay power for the pump power - use 12 AWG for power.
Mount regulator in engine compartment because the pump will be pumping volume overcoming the forward momentum of a WOT acceleration - no fuel starvation.
Also, with reg, route a return line to gas tank, using Moroso adapter for line to tank as this effort will reduce chances of percolating the fuel in summer.
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Have another gauge on hand in case present one breaks - no liquid-filled.
Don't forget filter.

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 28th, 16, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everett#2390 View Post
Supply ign controlled relay power for the pump power - use 12 AWG for power.
Mount regulator in engine compartment because the pump will be pumping volume overcoming the forward momentum of a WOT acceleration - no fuel starvation.
Also, with reg, route a return line to gas tank, using Moroso adapter for line to tank as this effort will reduce chances of percolating the fuel in summer.
Search

Have another gauge on hand in case present one breaks - no liquid-filled.
Don't forget filter.
Thanks Everett. I've got the electrical handled, but I have a couple questions on the other comments. Why no liquid filled? I've always felt liquid filled gauges are less prone to breakage and are more accurate.
Your explanation of the regulator makes sense. I was installing it back there for two reasons. 1. To hide it. 2. I felt that it would actually keep the fuel cooler by not have the whole aluminum housing conducting the heat from the engine compartment to the fuel. Maybe I'll re-think that. Do you think it would really cause me grief if I'm not racing except maybe a Fri/Sat night once in a great while?
The relatively inexpensive regulator I bought doesn't have the provisions for the return. If it did, it would be pretty easy because my return line is already plumbed from the factor set up.

'69 SS396 X66 L34 08D M21 BS
460ci Gen VI 9.75:1 AED 950 carb
241/249 @ .050" .625/.625 110 LSA

Semper Fi!

"The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing."
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 28th, 16, 12:23 PM
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

maybe I am missing something . but when I bought my 68 in 72, it had a mechanical pump as well as a holley electric pump that was installed at our local speed shop back then. it didn't have a regulator and it ran fine. in fact there is very few cars in this area that use a regulator with either pump
is this a fad to look kool under the hood or what
PS for what is worth I have NEVER used a regulator on any of my dirt or track cars
curious minds just wondering
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 28th, 16, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

Quote:
Originally Posted by flat tire View Post
maybe I am missing something . but when I bought my 68 in 72, it had a mechanical pump as well as a holley electric pump that was installed at our local speed shop back then. it didn't have a regulator and it ran fine. in fact there is very few cars in this area that use a regulator with either pump
is this a fad to look kool under the hood or what
PS for what is worth I have NEVER used a regulator on any of my dirt or track cars
curious minds just wondering
If I were using my mechanical pump I wouldn't use a regulator. An electric Holley like I'm using puts out something like 14 psi. It should be about 1/2 that. I don't think this is a fad or under hood bling. Too much pressure will cause flooding issues.

'69 SS396 X66 L34 08D M21 BS
460ci Gen VI 9.75:1 AED 950 carb
241/249 @ .050" .625/.625 110 LSA

Semper Fi!

"The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing."
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 28th, 16, 01:05 PM
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

Kevin, The Holley Blue Pump has always used a regulator. This pump free flows 110 gph and has a max pressure of 14 psi. The pump flows 70 gph at 9 psi and includes a regulator. The Holley Red Pump free flow 97 gph and has a max pressure of 7 psi. This pump flows 67 gph at 5 psi. If you had a Holley Red Pump I can see how you ran without a regulator but a Holley Blue Pump will pump gas through the needle and seat on a Holley much less a Carter carburetor (Edelbrock). I know this to be a fact because I had to reset the regulator to 6.5 psi from 7.5 psi using a 850 Holley HP.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 28th, 16, 02:03 PM
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

Dave, How are you planning on verifying that you don't have a fuel pump lobe? Did it wear down?

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 28th, 16, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zdld17 View Post
Dave, How are you planning on verifying that you don't have a fuel pump lobe? Did it wear down?
I am going to double check before I do anything, but my understanding from the guy I bought it from is that this roller cam doesn't have a fuel pump lobe.
I'm now wondering if I should just buy a red pump and forget about the regulator etc.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 28th, 16, 04:11 PM
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

Dave, I have yet to see a roller cam, either cast or billet that didn't have a fuel pump eccentric lobe unless it was a funny car motor .

I was looking at that fuel log your posted, Did you notice the the two nuts that feed the carb are for inverted fittings?

Also , If I had to choose pumps, I would go with the Red as its lower pressure. The gph rating will be good for your set up. Also it has less pressure and you may not need a bypass regulator to the tank. The higher pressure pump will or should be run with a regulator. If you don't use a reg with a high psi pump, fuel will dead head on the pump and possibly burn that pump .
I think I am reading your note correctly.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 28th, 16, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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Dave
 
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdld17 View Post
Dave, I have yet to see a roller cam, either cast or billet that didn't have a fuel pump eccentric lobe unless it was a funny car motor .

I was looking at that fuel log your posted, Did you notice the the two nuts that feed the carb are for inverted fittings?

Also , If I had to choose pumps, I would go with the Red as its lower pressure. The gph rating will be good for your set up. Also it has less pressure and you may not need a bypass regulator to the tank. The higher pressure pump will or should be run with a regulator. If you don't use a reg with a high psi pump, fuel will dead head on the pump and possibly burn that pump .
I think I am reading your note correctly.
I checked it out tonight and confirmed there isn't a lobe on the cam. I pulled the fuel pump rod plug out and inserted a long rod to the cam and manually turned the motor over. The rod didn't seem to move at all.
I didn't notice the inverted fittings. Thanks for pointing that out. Hopefully I can just use an adapter. I'll check it out.
If I stick with Holley I'll use the red, but I'm considering another brand. I've heard Holley can be pretty loud.
As with everything on my projects, the plan is ever evolving as I get more info. Thanks a lot.

'69 SS396 X66 L34 08D M21 BS
460ci Gen VI 9.75:1 AED 950 carb
241/249 @ .050" .625/.625 110 LSA

Semper Fi!

"The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing."
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 16, 04:56 AM
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

Quote:
Originally Posted by camarodriver67 View Post
Kevin, The Holley Blue Pump has always used a regulator. This pump free flows 110 gph and has a max pressure of 14 psi. The pump flows 70 gph at 9 psi and includes a regulator. The Holley Red Pump free flow 97 gph and has a max pressure of 7 psi. This pump flows 67 gph at 5 psi. If you had a Holley Red Pump I can see how you ran without a regulator but a Holley Blue Pump will pump gas through the needle and seat on a Holley much less a Carter carburetor (Edelbrock). I know this to be a fact because I had to reset the regulator to 6.5 psi from 7.5 psi using a 850 Holley HP.
thanks for the info. actually back then the pump was grey, maybe 6" long and 2.5" in diameter
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 16, 06:20 AM
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

When using the red Holley what fuse size is recommended?
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 16, 08:03 AM
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkX66 View Post
I checked it out tonight and confirmed there isn't a lobe on the cam. I pulled the fuel pump rod plug out and inserted a long rod to the cam and manually turned the motor over. The rod didn't seem to move at all.
I didn't notice the inverted fittings. Thanks for pointing that out. Hopefully I can just use an adapter. I'll check it out.
If I stick with Holley I'll use the red, but I'm considering another brand. I've heard Holley can be pretty loud.
As with everything on my projects, the plan is ever evolving as I get more info. Thanks a lot.
Just thinking about the cam with no fuel pump lobe. Anyone ever heard this? Application?

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 16, 08:35 AM
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

Just my two cents. If the car isn't going to be driven EVERY DAY, go ahead with your electric fuel pump. Personally, I would run the Holley red or a Carter designed for 7 psi max.

I am sure your cam has a lobe for the fuel pump. However, you cannot use the stock pump push rod. You need a roller on the end, like this one: Comp Cams 4609 PUSHROD PUSH ROD CHEVY FUEL PUMP fit Chevrolet -16 | eBay

Using the electric pump will eliminate that cost to help pay for the electric conversion.

Besides, MOST of the mechanical pumps these days put out too much pressure. I used a generic pump with the above pushrod on my 68 El Camino build with a roller cam. Quadrajet flooded. Check pressure and it was 12-14 psi. Found a Carter pump (can't remember the part number) and it was still a bit too high, like 8-9. Car runs and doesn't flood, but really shouln't be over 7 psi.

If the car sits for any length of time, it takes a lot of cranking to get it started. Carb goes dry. This is a common problem with today's gasoline, evaporating out of the carb. If I had an electric pump, I could engage the key and wait a bit for the pump to re-fill the carb. I am putting an SBC 350 roller cam motor (same low rpm, high torque cam used in the El Camino) in my 49 Studebaker truck. This time, I am going with an electric pump.

Lynn
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 16, 11:12 AM
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Re: Fuel pump/regulator plumbing

I use the same roller tip push rod on my roller cam. I pull it after the tour season for inspection and it's like new.

As for electric fuel pump, I used the Carter 4600 hp to keep me going until I pulled bad cam out . This was the comp cast roller cam that I lost the fuel pump eccentric on.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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