Carb Advice Wanted: Holley Ultra Avenger or Quick Fuel SS-Series?? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 17, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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Ozzie
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Concord, CA USA
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Carb Advice Wanted: Holley Ultra Avenger or Quick Fuel SS-Series??

Background: 68 Camaro with zz383, AFR 195/58cc/Magnum roller rocker heads, 700r4, 12bolt/3.42 Tru Track rear.

When crate motor put in (2005) I already had a Speed Demon 650 which, after a great deal of tuning and expense, ran incredibly: Launches were explosive, engine would roar, and tires were roasted. I believe the term, "ran like a raped ape" could be used to describe it.

Everything was good for about six years (9yrs total with the carb) until every time I would get on it, run, and let off, RPMs would stay high. Couldn't get it back to idle w/o shutting off engine. Kinda scary actually. Stomping on brakes, unable to slow car down with RPMs at 3000 and climbing. After about 2yrs of troubleshooting, couldn't take it anymore and just wanted to be rid of the "Demons." (pun intended)

So 5yrs ago I went back to a Holley and got the Avenger 670 (80670) Very little tuning (no 4-corner idle or sight glass - which I was used to with the Speed Demon) and upping the primary jets to 70-72 got it running "well." Should also mention the mileage I was getting did not improve like I thought going to a milder carb (10-11mpg)

The thing is, I KNOW there is more in there - already lived it - and I'm missing "the good old days." (Especially since I didn't get the mileage bump I thought would come with the Holley)

So here's the question: How to get back to the tire roasting days and not end up down a rabbit hole of making the wrong choice of carb or EFI?

Considerations:
Leery of going back to Demon
It appears Holley now owns/sells Holley, Quick Fuel, and Demon - all models in consideration cost $560+
Anyone have experience with the Ultra line? Is it just a shinier, more colorful version of the Avenger?
Seen good reviews of Quick Fuel. Is it truly better? Why does Holley sell both?
Already have $160 invested in AN dual feed fuel rail with pressure gauge - would like to re-use this piece
Ultra Avenger most likely can re-use; not sure if can be used on Quick Fuel
Is 675-680 the correct size for my motor - especially since it redlines at 5800?
Anything else I'm missing?

And lastly: FiTech (Jegs catalog) sells an EFI system for $995. Not $2200 - $3500 like many of the others
Has anyone taken this plunge? Is it really that easy? Do you get the same power as carbs?

Sorry for the length of this rambling question. Appreciate ALL feedback,

Ozzie
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'68 Camaro RS
zz383 (2005) rebuilt in 2019
AFR 195s, Quick Fuel 680, 700r4, Detroit TruTrac 3:42s
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 17, 05:39 PM
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Camarodude67
 
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Re: Carb Advice Wanted: Holley Ultra Avenger or Quick Fuel SS-Series??

383 is supposed to be configured with a 750 Double Pump, I always use AED 750 Holley Double Pump, Racing Accelerator and 4-corner idle and I think it is the best carb...Used for 425HP motors, 355 or my 302 Z/28.

Of course a 3500 Stall and 4:10 posi always helps. I replaced a Holley 680 Dominator with a AED and was night and day the way my car ran.

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 17, 06:20 PM
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Don
 
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Location: 2 Dog Town in West Texas
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Re: Carb Advice Wanted: Holley Ultra Avenger or Quick Fuel SS-Series??

Been there , done that with all these fancy shiner carbs, Demo etc. I went back to holley and tuned my own with an LM1,
My last holley was a an 850 80531 with vac sec.. Said to flow 950 out of boz. A real screamer on a small block but didn't have the street crispness off idle , even after tuning but screams. Went back to my tried and true 3310-4. 3310 pulls till 6200 then falls off as my dyno sheet show and I get 23 mpg on hiway.


Those shiner carbs are romance items, people that purchase them, don't know beans about how to tune, just trade off parts.

As for EFI. You let the computer do the work, air mass, air temp, etc. Don't take much but $$ to install and be done but more likely , you will never be satisfied.

Sounds like all noise. You need to find a more isolate place to do your testing.
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Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 17, 06:45 PM
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Scott
 
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Re: Carb Advice Wanted: Holley Ultra Avenger or Quick Fuel SS-Series??

Yes, Holley purchased Quick Fuel some years ago and sells both product lines. Between the two I'd hands down go with the Quick Fuel. The last Holley 670 I purchased was a big disappointment (a Holley 83670 - 670 CFM Street Avenger aluminum 4-bbl with vacuum secondaries and electric choke) and now a Quick Fuel SS sits in it's place and boy did it wake my motor up and almost no tuning out of the box. With the Holley, you have extra machining costs to the body if you want/need to go to adjustable screw in air bleeds and/or screw in idle feed restrictors, the Quick Fuel SS has all that machining already done. Quick Fuel is a much better carburetor in my opinion, regardless of the color or shine factor. It just has more features and tuning capability right out of the box.
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69 Camaro Z/28 RS, original Azure Turquoise, M21 & 3.73 12-bolt posi. NOM 406ci, AFR 210 heads, Straub hyd. roller cam & Dynatech 1-3/4" > 1-7/8" headers, QuickFuel 750 Annular. Photos at:
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 17, 08:27 PM
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Morgan
 
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Re: Carb Advice Wanted: Holley Ultra Avenger or Quick Fuel SS-Series??

Do you want a choke?
Make sure it has 4 corner idle
Rebuild your avenger with a kit and return it to stock
Spend $150 on an AEM AIR FUEL RATIO GAUGE. With the meter, you will know exactly where you are at every stage of the circuits, it is the best tuning dollar you will spend. I ran a innovate lm1 portable unit for 10 years before buying the The gauge. I took out the ash tray insert and made a face plate and used dum dum to hold it in. Close the ash tray drawer and you are back to stock
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 17, 09:55 PM
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Robert
 
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Re: Carb Advice Wanted: Holley Ultra Avenger or Quick Fuel SS-Series??

I went with the FiTech a couple of years ago and I'm so much happier now. Easy install and after the last update my issues with the hesitation are gone. I just didn't know enough about carbs and all the PV's, jets, and air bleeds removed and replaced with different ones still had issues. I can now sit in the car and plug in the handheld and make changes and take it out for a spin to see if it helped. So easy. No regrets. Customer service is top notch as well.
Selling the carbs sitting on the work bench now!
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 17, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Ozzie
 
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Re: Carb Advice Wanted: Holley Ultra Avenger or Quick Fuel SS-Series??

Thanks to all for the replies - lots of good "real world" info here.

I think what I'm learning is, the relationship you have with your carb/EFI is a lt like dating - you gotta find the one with the traits and personality that suits your tastes.

Old School Holley = tried and true, manageable and predictable IF you know what you're doing
Ultra Avenger/Quick Fuel SS = The hot, shiny newcomers with all the bells and whistles - possible wild ride..until they fizzle or need further adjustment
EFI = a bit of research and work upfront to get "set it and forget it" performance/reliability

I'll keep researching until I figure out what I want to "settle down" with!

'68 Camaro RS
zz383 (2005) rebuilt in 2019
AFR 195s, Quick Fuel 680, 700r4, Detroit TruTrac 3:42s
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 17, 02:31 PM
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Dave
 
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Re: Carb Advice Wanted: Holley Ultra Avenger or Quick Fuel SS-Series??

In my humble opinion unless you know how to tune a carb, and have the tools to do so (requires more than a screw driver today) I would stick with a simple Holley. The added four corner adjustment and interchangeable air bleeds just gets people into trouble that much faster. Do you need them, possibly if you are tuning for changing weather conditions at the track (assumes your local track even has a weather station to give you the needed information).

I haven't competed at that level in over forty years (back then we used drill bits to change air bleed size and filled the hole with a thin gauge wire to tune). If it is that critical I would recommend going EFI and keep the lap top in your glove box.

By the way Holley has not cast their metering blocks since Barry Grant convinced them of the virtues of billet material (that and CNC is cheaper than machinists). The only thing that differentiates the Quick Fuel or BG carb from the base Holley is the color of the anodizing (not knocking anodizing as it protects the metal from the acidic affects of alcohol in today's pump gas).

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