To cam or not to cam? - Team Camaro Tech
Engine General Engine Discussion.

 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 17, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Bruce
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 114
To cam or not to cam?

Ok, base 1967 327/210 HP currently with the top end off. Bought the Edelbrock top end kit 2099 kit with the etec heads, supposed to be one of their top of the line top end kits. The heads are modeled after the Vortec heads with a Vortec intake. Supposed to produce 435 HP out of a 350 with 12' of vacuum at 1,000 rpm.

The heads, intake and carb, along with ceramic coated headers are going on, that's a given. Only question is do I put the cam on now, or save it for another engine?

Just completing phase 1 of my 67 Camaro. Paint, new wheels, tires and some engine mods to cure the 210 hp disease. The engine felt like it was running on 7 cylinders. I *believe* it was the heads, but cannot rule out a worn cam lobe, although I think it is unlikely. Compression test was pretty good, did NOT do a leak down test.

The cam that comes with the top end kit is fairly stout, there is my concern. I believe without the cam, the kit will put out over 300 hp with my 50 year old 327 stock short block. Seeing that the engine put out 275 hp with just a 4bbl carb and double hump heads, I think that is very reasonable. My math says it should put out over 400 hp with the cam.

Cam specs - http://www.jegs.com/photos/300/350/350-2201camcard.jpg

My main concerns - 50 year old power glide (crappy first gear ratio), short block, stock 10 bolt rear end with 2.73 gears. Not a good setup (especially the stock torque converter and 2.73 gears) for a decent cam.

Engine will have 10:1 compression with a steel shim head gasket.

During phase 2 of my upgrades (probably over the winter) I will *likely* but a 383 stroker short block, O.D. (like a 700R4 or similar) trans with a better torque converter, better p-trac rear end with better gears (like 3.73 or so).

Options:

1. Install heads, intake, carb and headers, enjoy the upgrades as-is until I do phase 2.

2. Install above, plus the included cam.

3. Install option 1, with a cheaper, milder cam (not a great option due to the amount of work.) Save the Thumper cam for the final engine.

I'm leaning towards not doing any cam work at this time, but I keep going back and forth. I do have everything to do the cam, but it's a lot more work. I'm a bit concerned that the cam won't work so hot with a stock torque converter, a power glide (crappy first gear ratio) and a 2.73 gear ratio.

thoughts?
Coach62 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 17, 10:42 PM
Moderator
John
 
Vega$69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vegas NV/Wesley Chapel FL
Posts: 12,730
Garage
Re: To cam or not to cam?

Put the cam in and don't look back
Vega$69 is offline  
post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 17, 10:49 PM
John
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Carlsbad
Posts: 2
Re: To cam or not to cam?

Call Chris over at Straub Technologies. He is a cam guru and can help you. Great guy to talk about your build with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
rp930 likes this.
jketron is offline  
 
post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 17, 10:51 PM
Gold Lifetime Member
Jim
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Goodyear AZ
Posts: 646
Garage
Re: To cam or not to cam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach62 View Post
I'm a bit concerned that the cam won't work so hot with a stock torque converter, a power glide (crappy first gear ratio) and a 2.73 gear ratio.

thoughts?
I'm no expert but way back when I did similar work to my 327/210hp but didn't touch the PG and rear end. I always felt it drove like a turd and wished I had done the trans/rear end too. Just my $.02
VitaminC is offline  
post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 17, 05:12 AM
Team Member
Don
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mountain Springs, Texas
Posts: 3,670
Re: To cam or not to cam?

Cam spec sheet specifically states for use with high stall converter only. I think this thing will be a dog with your stock converter....

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
1969 Mustang Sportsroof project
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1956 Cameo project - C5 drivetrain
1957 Buick Caballero project
dhutton is offline  
post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 17, 05:14 AM
Banned
Chet
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oakland County
Posts: 1,353
Re: To cam or not to cam?

Every cam manufacturer out there in their catalog will list the torque converter range to go with each cam. Edelbrock is no exception. Look up your cam in their catalog and read the recommendations.
onefiness is offline  
post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 17, 06:46 AM
Senior Tech
Greg
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: nebraska
Posts: 882
Re: To cam or not to cam?

I would throw the cam in and if you feel like any other changes down the road do them.

My 69 Build thread :
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


1995 Z28 (sold)
1987 Iroc-Z (sold)
2005 350Z (sold)
gphusker is offline  
post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 17, 07:05 AM
Senior Tech
Michael
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lutz, FL
Posts: 1,918
Re: To cam or not to cam?

Besides, the old cam and lifters were end of life decades ago.

I used a Holley SysteMax II kit on my 67 SS 350 and the cam is definitely part of the equation (nice product, good price).

X2, new cam.

Live a little.
mahunt is offline  
post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 17, 07:22 AM
Team Member
Darin
 
ilikeike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Stanislaus Co. Ca.
Posts: 1,455
Re: To cam or not to cam?

I wouldn't put it together until I was done with phase 2.
Then put the cam in it.

1968 Butternut Coupe,
421" Dart SHP block
TKO 600 RR
Dutchman 9" w/3.70 US Gear Lightning r&p
Speedtech torque arm,Ridetech HQ coilovers
Global West arms
Budnik wheels

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ilikeike is online now  
post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 17, 07:56 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
Don
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 2 Dog Town in West Texas
Posts: 11,154
Re: To cam or not to cam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jketron View Post
Call Chris over at Straub Technologies. He is a cam guru and can help you. Great guy to talk about your build with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
The cam you selected is better than the cheaper one mainly due to being a hyd roller. First off you don't have to worry about wiping a lobe on start up or in future.

Yes, your rearend ratio is high as with a PG. Unless you want to change it also and keep the PG, you need to work around the cam design. You could be in luck as some PG trans have a lower first gear, but I think that was one out of a 6 cly.

But since you are looking at this expense, go one step further and call Chris.

Consider roller trunion rockers as they free up hp also.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
zdld17 is offline  
post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 17, 08:22 AM
Senior Tech
Rick
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Denver
Posts: 542
Re: To cam or not to cam?

Get rid of the powerglide first.
VitaminC likes this.

69 COPO clone, 461" BBC 11.25:1 Compression
840 Rec Heads (2.25/1.88) AED 850 HO carb
Orig Exhaust Manifolds
Straub (Clay Smith) cam, 288/300 .600/.569 109.
TH400, 3500 stall, 4.11 12 bolt posi
rp930 is online now  
post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 17, 06:15 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Bruce
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 114
Re: To cam or not to cam?

I called edelbrock and they said that cam is no good with that setup. They recommended a different roller cam. I also called Comp they said the same thing and recommended a similar cam. I went with the Comp as it was in stock, and I liked it better (higher lift).

Cam should be here tomorrow, with any luck will be in this weekend.
Coach62 is offline  
post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 17, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Bruce
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 114
Re: To cam or not to cam?

Here is the cam I went with.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...422-8/reviews/
Coach62 is offline  
post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 17, 07:39 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
George
 
Gbauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 8,047
Re: To cam or not to cam?

Do the cam and get rid of the 'glide for a build 2004r or 200r4.

My little 250 was putting out even more power than your 210 when I ditched the powerglide for the 2004r. That really woke the car up and made it MUCH more driveable. It was fine before if I didn't want to accelerate or drive above about 55 but other than that... well the trans was holding the car back big time.

Trans and cam first. Then follow that up with a posi and new gearing. That'll make a a huge difference for a street car and keep you from feeling the need to get a whole new engine in it for a while (but when you do the rest will be ready for it!).

edit: I should've read further...

Regardless still pick yourself up a 2004r from a yard and rebuild it with a shift kit and new guts. You'll be in it for $1200 or so by the time it's all done and you'll be able to say you built it yourself.

Sold:
1968 Base hardtop 250 with a P̶G̶ built 2004r
Offy intake
Holley 390 CFM carb
Langdon split header to a 2.5" exhaust
Mild cam
Custom interior
Gbauer is offline  
post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 17, 08:44 AM
Senior Tech
jeff
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: texas
Posts: 201
Re: To cam or not to cam?

No power brakes with just 12" of vacuum.
jkuro is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome