To electric water pump or to not??? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 27th, 05, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Location: Janesville, WI
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To electric water pump or to not???

Well Ive checked over the issues for and against an electric water pump. Ive seen different opinions on if they are a good idea or not, and I still dont know if there is any kind of consensus here. The whole to use an electric pump or not seems to be based on "this one guy had it and..." So for those of you that have specificly used a electric pump was the experience good or bad? was this a steet machine or drag track only? Was there any noticable differences good or bad after you have drove it.?

Im considering it as a future replacement. My car is a daily driver 350, runs 14.8's, probably 9.0 compression or so. but I am bolting on some additional power gainers with an RPM airgap manifold, hooker headers, MSD digital 6 plus ign, msd distributor, msd blasster ss coil, Holly keith dorton fuel pump,and 2 1/2 in. flowmaster exhaust, subframe connectors, electric fan. My cooling system works perfectly fine now except I dont really like the look of all the belts. I would much rather have just one to run the alt. and have the cleaner look, WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS..

So.. anybody with SPECIFIC hands on experience please chime in... Please no "i heard they won't flow enough, or I heard they make 10 extra HP" stories..

Thanks

Mark
Long Gone: 1984 Z28, 1989 RS
Current : 1967 Coupe w/350, 2010 2SS

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 27th, 05, 05:43 PM
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Ken
 
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Re: To electric water pump or to not???

dragon0123: I have been running a proform 35gpm electric pump on the street and track for three years now. I absolutely love it as the temp in stop and go traffic stays between 180 &190, no matter how hot it is outside. I attribute this to the much higher coolant flow at low engine speeds compared to a mechanical pump. At the drag strip, i have got the car cooled down between passes in 5 minutes maximum ,compared to 20 minutes with the stock pump! Just remember not to run a thermastat with a electric,use a plate with a .750 dia. hole in it in place of the stat. or take the guts out of a old stat and put it in your housing. You also give up being able to run a heater in your car because of no provisions for heater hoses on elec.pumps, but more than worth the sacrifice to me! I also went 1 tenth quicker in the 1/4 with the elec. pump!!

Ken.

1968 camaro,405cid,10:1comp..,#509 casting,studded 2 bolt,195raceported heads,750holley vac.sec.,cc xr300hr cam with rev kit,rpm airgap,msd dist. 6al ign.,8.5 10bolt,3.73gear,3500 stall,turbo 350 trans, 60ft-1.487,1/4-11.36,mph 116.34
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 27th, 05, 06:44 PM
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Re: To electric water pump or to not???

Why would you want an electric water pump? I can't think of a good reason. If you add an electric water pump, you'll need electric fans, relays to power it all, and a beefed up alternator to keep up the charge. Since energy can't be created or destroyed, converting rotating motion to electrical energy and back to rotating motion will take more power than driving a water pump directly.

Dave
========================
68 Coupe, 350 w/ Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, cam, intake, 700R4, Dave's small body HEI
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 27th, 05, 08:06 PM
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Bill
 
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Re: To electric water pump or to not???

Drag,
I have to agree with Dave. Keep it siimple and reliable. I have seen a few electric pumps fail, and when they fail you have to stop. Mechanical pumps rarely fail and when they do its usually a leak that you can manage to limp home with. Same with electric fans, although they have become much more reliable since they are being used in most new vehicles now days.
Just my opinion,

Bill Koustenis
Owner
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
1971 Chevelle "Heavy Chevy" original owner


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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 27th, 05, 08:31 PM
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Jim
 
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Re: To electric water pump or to not???

I've never run an electric pump, never will, don't even run an electric fan. Even the belt driven stuff is a "stop on the side of the road" waiting to happen. Lost a belt on a 93 vette once, 4 hrs from home and 5 from where I needed to be. She cooled just fine for the hour and a half it took me to find the a dealer with the belt in stock.

Plug it into the front of the cam, now that's the way to drive something as vital as a water pump!





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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 27th, 05, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Talking Re: To electric water pump or to not???

Well Dave, Bill, and Jim. Not that I have anything against mechanical water pumps, but I am of the mindset, evolve or die. Personaly my stock mechanical pump and fan (without a shourd ) have been fine for me over the past 6 years ive owned the car. Its never gotten over 200 even in the most unmanagable heat. However as my car sits in my garage now in about 1000 different pieces, ive been doing a lot of wondering ( instead of driving ) what can I make better on it. Now Ive lost and broke my fair share of belts, and have had pumps leak on me at the most opportune time during my life and have been wonderig if there might just be a better way. Ive got an upgraded alternator, I am willing to rewire the electric pump as all the wiring is out of it anyway, and I dont run a heater. So the question comes down to $$$, HP benifits of electric pump, and reliability.

So this is why ive started this thread. To see who out there has "gone to the dark side" or "the path of enlightenment" depending on how you look at it. I would love to hear from an owner who has had a heck of a time with one too. I just think that there a lot of prejudices toward electric pumps and I would like to hear some real world examples.

Does anybody know of any tests done by any hot rod magizines that may have done any tests to determine if there was any HP gains or cooling problems by changing over to an electric pump.??

Thanks guys (and girls) for your input.

Mark

Mark
Long Gone: 1984 Z28, 1989 RS
Current : 1967 Coupe w/350, 2010 2SS

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 05, 10:28 AM
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Royce
 
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Re: To electric water pump or to not???

Mark,
I know a few guys running electric water pumps. None of them are driven on the street very often. I talked to a few guys at shows and they said they have no problem running them on the street. I still couldn't get myself to do it. As you can see a lot of people are dead set against anythinc electric. I am not one of them, I have run electric fans for years as well as electric fuel pumps. Neither have ever let me down. My only concern about an electric water pump is volume of flow. I have seen one "fail" and it was much like a mechanical pump, is started leaking, but still worked. Electric motors these days are VERY reliable (the decent quality ones). Failure wouldn't be my main concern.

Royce (NO XQSSS) Bradley

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 05, 11:01 AM
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Jim
 
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Re: To electric water pump or to not???

I think it's mostly a question of personal phobias. Interestingly, while I do not run electric fans or water pumps, I would run aftermarket efi again, even tho one has left me stranded on the side of the road several times in the past!

If you go with the electric pump, make sure it is one that is recommended for continuous street use!





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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 05, 12:07 PM
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Matt Jones
 
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Re: To electric water pump or to not???

Even if they did make 10 more HP (and remember, that's only at high RPMs when they start to cause a drag), is the extra 10HP at 6000RPM worth the definate decrease in cooling and reliability? If yes, then do it.

Matt Jones
Lead Mechanical Engineer
Art Morrison Ent. Inc.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 05, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Re: To electric water pump or to not???

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotFastEnough68maro
dragon0123: I have been running a proform 35gpm electric pump on the street and track for three years now. I absolutely love it as the temp in stop and go traffic stays between 180 &190, no matter how hot it is outside. I attribute this to the much higher coolant flow at low engine speeds compared to a mechanical pump. At the drag strip, i have got the car cooled down between passes in 5 minutes maximum ,compared to 20 minutes with the stock pump! Just remember not to run a thermastat with a electric,use a plate with a .750 dia. hole in it in place of the stat. or take the guts out of a old stat and put it in your housing. You also give up being able to run a heater in your car because of no provisions for heater hoses on elec.pumps, but more than worth the sacrifice to me! I also went 1 tenth quicker in the 1/4 with the elec. pump!!

Ken.
Hey Ken, Question for you.. with the electric pump do you just run the alternator to the crank for your belt.? Does that cause any problems? Slipage or throwing them?

Mark
Long Gone: 1984 Z28, 1989 RS
Current : 1967 Coupe w/350, 2010 2SS

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 05, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Wink Re: To electric water pump or to not???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver69Camaro
Even if they did make 10 more HP (and remember, that's only at high RPMs when they start to cause a drag), is the extra 10HP at 6000RPM worth the definate decrease in cooling and reliability? If yes, then do it.
Well thats kinda what Im trying to figure out.. Ive only heard second hand knowledge that they are "less reliable or have less cooling ability". Ive seen some people like Ken say that he has put one on his car and he hasnt had any problems with it. I've never seen any articals in Magizines on the subject except for advertisements.

I just think that they may gotten a bad rap?? I dont know.. ive never owned one. Just trying to get to the truth. How much for instance does a stock pump flow at say, 3000 rpm (crusing)? and at idle??

When EFI came around I'm sure there was some resistance to it, but now that every auto maker in the world uses it, its hard to dispute that it works well.

Mark

Mark
Long Gone: 1984 Z28, 1989 RS
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 05, 03:34 PM
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Mark
 
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Re: To electric water pump or to not???

March Pulleys just came out with a setup intended for use with either CSR or Meziere electric water pumps. Looks like the perfect set-up if you can handle the price. I called Mezeire and was told that their 55 GPH pump, which is the most powerfull pump I have seen, fits the March brackets. I plan on using this set-up in my street driven vert.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 05, 05:12 PM
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Ken
 
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Re: To electric water pump or to not???

Dragon0123 : Yes that is what i did. I ran a single v belt from my aluminum crank pulley to my upper drivers side mount alternater. So far in three seasons no thrown belts or slipage what so ever! The alternater is mounted solid to the head by means of a billit machined aluminum bracket i made myself as i am a machinist by trade. Food for thought, the proform pump is only $150.00 at summit and info on it states that can be used on the street. I also have i high flow edelbrock victor alumimun pump sitting on my workbench that i paid $150.00 for and it never kept my car as cool as the electric! I put 2to 3000 miles on the car per season. I have no reason to B.S. you as i am a car guy through and through and would never suggest anything that would hurt someone elses motor. I also run the pump off a relay and curcuit breaker and also put a very bright painless wiring idiot light in line so when the pump is on the light is on in the car dash. If the pump was to burn up and trip the curcuit breaker the lite will go out indicating a problem. The choice is yours! Ken.

1968 camaro,405cid,10:1comp..,#509 casting,studded 2 bolt,195raceported heads,750holley vac.sec.,cc xr300hr cam with rev kit,rpm airgap,msd dist. 6al ign.,8.5 10bolt,3.73gear,3500 stall,turbo 350 trans, 60ft-1.487,1/4-11.36,mph 116.34
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 05, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
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Mark
 
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Re: To electric water pump or to not???

Excellent Ken.. thank you for your input.. I would still like to hear from somebody that put one in and it didnt work out for them...

Mark
Long Gone: 1984 Z28, 1989 RS
Current : 1967 Coupe w/350, 2010 2SS

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Sep 30th, 05, 08:44 AM
 
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Re: To electric water pump or to not???

there are great pumps out from meziere, holley, moroso, stewart warner, and many others. All these pumps have a listing for how many hours of servire they are recommended for. (meziere inline pump # wp-136s will provide 3000 hours or service. probably the best one out there.) there is no electric pump I would recommend for the street.
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