Ever Seen a Pilot Bushing Fall Out of the Crank? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 05, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Cameron
 
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Ever Seen a Pilot Bushing Fall Out of the Crank?

I just got done rebuilding the 408sb and reinstalling it in my Camaro a little over a month ago. I have an Autogear 4 speed in this car so I have to use a pilot bushing or bearing. I chose to install a pilot bushing this time around, even though I have had some trouble out of the bushings in the past. Anyway, after a few hundred miles, I started to notice a weird vibration when I pushed the clutch in. I have had this problem before, and it was caused by the center hub of the clutch disc being loose, which in turn caused an out of balance situation, and caused a vibration. The vibration eventually took out the pilot bushing. Anyway, a new clutch and a pilot bearing, not bushing, took care of the problem. I figured I had the same problem this time around.

So, I took the tranny out today and the pilot bushing just fell out of the crank, which was actually kind of handy since I was going to change it to a bearing. Anyway, the bushing had been spinning in the end of the crank. It was tight when I hammered it in so I don't know how it got loose enough to spin in the end of the crank. When I hammered the new bearing in today, it was very tight, just like it should be. When I installed the tranny for the first time, when the engine was fresh, I did notice that the tranny was very tight going in. I did use the bolts to press it up against the bellhousing and yes, I know that is a no no. I got lazy toward the end. Could the pilot bushing have seized to the input shaft and spun in the end of the crank? I also noticed that on initial startup, I had some clutch disengagement problems. Maybe it was because of the pilot bushing? I also noticed that the pilot bushing was mushroomed over where I hammered it in without something between the hammer and the bushing. I didn't make that mistake this time around. Has anyone ever seen or heard of anything like this?

49 Chevy 3100 Project
Acro Sport II Biplane
69 Camaro
400 Small Block
AutoGear M22 4 Speed
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 05, 08:31 PM
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Bill
 
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Re: Ever Seen a Pilot Bushing Fall Out of the Crank?

Cameron,
I have never seen a pilot bushing come loose in a crank ? They are actually pretty bulletproof. If you think about it, the only time they are doing anything is when the clutch is disengaged, like when you are shifting or starting and stopping. Otherwise they spin at the same speed as the input shaft.
One thing you might want to check, especially since you had problems getting the trans in the first time, is whether the bellhousing is aligned properly with the crankshaft, better known as "dailing in" the bellhousing. If it is off a bunch, it could cause problems with the pilot bearing.
By the way, I have seen quite a few pilot "bearings" come out in rusty pieces, I have never had a problem with a bronze bushing.
Just my opinion,

Bill Koustenis
Owner
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
1971 Chevelle "Heavy Chevy" original owner


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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 05, 07:37 AM Thread Starter
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Cameron
 
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Re: Ever Seen a Pilot Bushing Fall Out of the Crank?

Bill,
Bellhousing alignment is within .004". I did check it, but I forgot to mention it. The reason that I had a hard time putting the trans in is because my clutch alignment tool is horrible. It has quite a bit of play in it so you have to rely on some feel to get the clutch disc centered correctly. I usually have the motor in the car when installing the tranny so I just get someone to push the clutch in while I insert the tranny. I didn't have that option this time around because the engine and tranny were out of the car when I put them together.

This is a new one on me too. I don't have 30 years experience or anything, but I have been at the working on old cars thing for quite a while.

49 Chevy 3100 Project
Acro Sport II Biplane
69 Camaro
400 Small Block
AutoGear M22 4 Speed
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 05, 08:47 AM
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Re: Ever Seen a Pilot Bushing Fall Out of the Crank?

Something is out of wack. I agree with Bill the first thought would be alignment. Is there a possibility the bellhousing is cracked? It has happened to me makes you go nuts until you figure it out.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old Oct 17th, 05, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ever Seen a Pilot Bushing Fall Out of the Crank?

I didn't see any cracks on the bellhousing and it is pretty clean. I did just think of something though. I checked the bellhousing alignment a couple of years ago. I had the block align honed this time around. Could that have moved the crank centerline enough to cause me some problems?

I also noticed that the pilot bushing was not installed all the way, mainly due to the outer end being mushroomed from my installation. It probably lacked 1/16"-1/8" from being all the way in.

49 Chevy 3100 Project
Acro Sport II Biplane
69 Camaro
400 Small Block
AutoGear M22 4 Speed
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 07, 09:24 PM
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Re: Ever Seen a Pilot Bushing Fall Out of the Crank?

Any vibrations now?
If there is, I'd suspect a bent input shaft.
I don't have a clue on the bushing...

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old Jan 14th, 07, 04:59 AM
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Re: Ever Seen a Pilot Bushing Fall Out of the Crank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron View Post
I didn't see any cracks on the bellhousing and it is pretty clean. I did just think of something though. I checked the bellhousing alignment a couple of years ago. I had the block align honed this time around. Could that have moved the crank centerline enough to cause me some problems?

I also noticed that the pilot bushing was not installed all the way, mainly due to the outer end being mushroomed from my installation. It probably lacked 1/16"-1/8" from being all the way in.
You said you had bell housing alignment a couple years ago and now you said that , you had block align honed this time? I would think that you need to redial the housing again. Something has changed from two years ago? Use some type of solid tool or socket the get the bushing down into the crank pilot hole. It will come to a stop. This is not hard to do. I used an old cut off input shaft for this , even a cheap bushing installer will work.
Like David said, set up an dial indicator on the trans input shaft and rotate, check for runout. Did you mention what transmission this is?

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old Jan 14th, 07, 03:45 PM
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Eric
 
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Re: Ever Seen a Pilot Bushing Fall Out of the Crank?

I have actualy had this happen....Just ths summer.

As i was pulling my muncie the pilot bearing came out to. I had bent bearing retainer. I am guessing it poped out as I I pryed the trany off the bellhousing.

Put the new one in...(along with a new clutch and resurfaced flywheel) so far no problems. The new bushing was definatly tight!

'68 Coupe 383 Small Block
4 speed Muncie (M 21)
12 bolt rear end (4.10)
Old school slappers
Old School L-60 Mickey Thompson's


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