starter or flywheel problem - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 22nd, 05, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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starter or flywheel problem

I have a 79 camaro with a 383 stroker when i baught the car it had a delco starter that bearaly turned it over so I thought ok I will just put a high torque mini starter on it well to make a long story short it been through 4 different starters in 2 months and when i put each one on they proform great for about 5 starting cycles and then its that horrible grinding sound, the fly wheel looks fine besides being a bit rusty im assuming its a 168 tooth because I here 153 is used mainly for manual trans. and its not my timing im only runing about 5-10 degrees advanced my 85 trans am 305 timing is more advanced then thatand has no problem starting. any ideas on what it could be?
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 22nd, 05, 10:58 PM
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Re: starter or flywheel problem

Hey. I had posted the "carnage" pics of my friends 383.

He also had starter issues. Used a late model mini/hi torque unit, but was never quite right. If I remember correctly, the flexplate is different for those (400 cranks)? He finally went to the parts store and bought an OEM type replacement for a 400 sb. That solved his starter issues.

Was worried about heat issues, since it had headers. Put one of those foil-type wraps around it, and never had a problem with it.

dave

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 05, 07:27 AM
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Re: starter or flywheel problem

There is a differance in flywheel tooth count. If you went to mini starters, they ususally have two bolt patterns to use, 153 / 168 tooth. In any case,, any of these starters and orginals need to be shimmed, especially the mini. The mini starters, I used Tilton, has provisions to shim both ways, one on the parallel and one on depth. On the GM starter you shim in mostly and sometimes only one side of the housing to get it correct. Most parts stores sell these little guages which is mainly a 1/16 piece of wire or rod to place between starter tooth and flywheel tooth depth. Once you got that , you are set. I am still using my heavy duty cast iron nose starter but have used mini on other cars. A word about mini starters, there are lots of cheapies out there and are not worth the money ,, once they are out ,, they are basically gone and most starter shops will not even look at them. Get a Tilton. You pay for what you get.

If you got a bad flywheel, it has to be replaced , no bandaids.

Don
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Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 05, 08:47 AM
 
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Smile Re: starter or flywheel problem

A bad flywheel can be fixed b/c some machine shops will press, (and then MAYBE spotweld OR plug hold it at a couple of places), on a new ring gear for you.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 05, 09:06 AM
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Re: starter or flywheel problem

Clutch Fords that I am aware of have that feature,, just heat off and heat on ... GM does not , that I know of, If its AT,,, New plate is more cost effective.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 05, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: starter or flywheel problem

the problem with all of the is that they were never close enough to the flywheel so I had to shim the outer bolt to get them to the correct clearence. I have replaced many starters on many cars and this is the first one that I have had to do that with. i hate to yank the whole motor out just to put a flywheel on
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 05, 05:47 PM
 
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Red face Re: starter or flywheel problem

Z,

I thought we could put a new ring gear on our flywheels too??

If not, my BAD!!!

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 05, 06:14 PM
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Re: starter or flywheel problem

Is it possible for a new oem starter be so off that it doesn't even engage the flywheel? the reason i'm asking is that my brother's chevelle recently cracked the aluminum snout. So we replaced it with a new one and now when you hit the key it sounds like the starter just spins, the motor doesn't turn over or anything. The first starter worked great and wasn't shimmed at all! Any tips...?

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 05, 08:42 PM
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Re: starter or flywheel problem

We talked about it tonite, and it was the flexplate for a 400 sb that is different. He was burning up and replacing starters, no matter what the amount of shims were.

An OE 400 sb starter was the fix for him.

dave

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 05, 05:21 AM Thread Starter
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Re: starter or flywheel problem

where do I find an oe starter for a sb400? and how much do they cost?
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 05, 06:45 AM
 
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Smile Re: starter or flywheel problem

Go to the parts store and get one. I took my old one and told them that was what I wanted and the guy dug around and found a h-d one off a 427/454 that fit fine.


It's the one with a cast-iron snout and staggered bolts if not mistaken.

Also, a h-d starter will have a copper spacer that's about 3/4" to 7/8" long between the field coils and the solenoid.

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 05, 07:48 AM
 
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Re: starter or flywheel problem

On my 75, (400, 4 bolt mains) I used a truck starter (Cast iron snout) that bolts to my scattershield. It has been in the car for 10 years and no problems yet. I put a Moroso shield on it so it doesn't overheat.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 05, 01:47 PM
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Re: starter or flywheel problem

PDQ, Not to my knowledge that sbc flywheels starter rings can be replaced, i sold lots of ford rings but not gm. Unless they started this recently.

Its gonna be tough finding the cast iron housing but they are out there. What happen also with rebuilders is that when they get the cores in ,,everything is dismantled and put in piles of what ever they are . Many times more than none ,, all pieces never see the same starter body again. Fields and stators , if it passes the growler testing and no opens, then it goes together and many get the rebuilt end plates and nose ends with variable thickness od bushing and new brushes and a generic roller starter drive. So by going thru the parts store and saying i need this model starter, you prolly wont get one for that car only,, it fits every other model but a hot cranking motor can tell the differance. And some have differant internals also. One thing you can do is try to buy a Delco Rebuilt,, they are not so bad as the Chemosabe brand or Cardone. i could go on but I think you get the picture.

Don
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 05, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
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Re: starter or flywheel problem

I went to oreilly's auto parts and the starter they gave my is the same delco starter that i have recived twice. im about at my whits end here I just dont know what to do I have tried about everything except replacing the flywheel and for me to do that I have to pull the motor.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Oct 25th, 05, 06:05 AM
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Re: starter or flywheel problem

Whats easier, pulling motor or trans or even sliding it back... you are in deep now so do it right for the last time... Get correct flywheel for the 400 as sounds like your old one is chewed up? Order a Tilton mini for that motor and maybe the 4:1 ratio starter . Shim in like they instruct you to . All the stuff to do it is there.. Follow their instructions,,, You can do it at home, on your back or if you are lucky to have a lift. Remember that the 400 is an external balanced motor and be sure to put flywheel on the correct side or you will have convertor issues. Count your flywheel teeth but with a Tilton , they are made for either,, has two set of bolt holes to chose from... From what you are saying orginally,, starter is too far away like your flywheel is too small. Don't assume>

Don
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Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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