Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage) - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 05, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

I posted early in the week that I had installed a new camshaft and during break-in I also used a new intake manifold and one of the manifold bolts ended up being too long and interfering with a pushrod...ultimately bending it.

Well. I took the intake off just now and discovered the lifter in pieces as expected. From the look of the face (that rides on the camshaft) of the lifter there has not been any serious damage...very minor swirly marks on the face, but no grind marks...same with lobe as best I can tell.

I felt the lobe through the lifter hole as best I could and it felt pretty smooth...not glassy smooth, but no big grooves or anything odd.

Since I cannot feel any damage to the camshaft I will go ahead and buy a lifter to install and put it back together and see how it goes. I only have today to work on it, so cannot ponder this too much.

Will let you know how it goes and will check compression on that cylinder when I am done.

To answer a few questions posed at the end of the last thread, no, I did not clearance the valves as this is a mild cam and will not possibly lift the valves into contact with the pistons. Second, I checked the clearance of the other intake manifold bolts (the real problem here) and only one of them could even possibly interfere and it is much shorter than the problem bolt. Sad thing is, if I used this longer bolt in any of the other holes but one there would not have been a problem. Lucky me.

Thanks again for the advice. Learning a fair amount...such is life.

Darrin
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 05, 10:13 AM
 
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

If I may make a recommendation. I dont know if you have a dial indicator with mag/base or not, but they can be had from harborfreight (either local or on the net) for very little money, and are very useful for auto work. If you can get one, measure the lift on that lobe using a lifter in the bore and compare it to another lobe int or exh whichever it is. That might make you more comfortable that the cam took no damage without having to pull it.. 2c
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 05, 10:45 AM
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

I'd still be concerned... if the pushrod was bound up and bent, and the lifter is trashed like that, it probably wasn't rotating, and that would cause abnormal cam wear, even if you cannot see or feel it.





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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 29th, 05, 12:19 PM
 
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

Quote:
I felt the lobe through the lifter hole as best I could and it felt pretty smooth...not glassy smooth,
Option 1.Just me but its comin out new cam and lifters under $100.00 Gaskets, new push rod and correct intake bolts under $50.00 Total Repair $150.00+ or - Sad but the correct repair.

Now I have piece of mind I FIXED it no more concern. Im to old to add any more worries to the long list life keeps adding

Or Option 2 new lifter pushrod gaskets and correct intake bolt maybe $50.00 50% chance of failure and refering to Option 1 with the exception you only get to reuse the new intake bolts and pushrod. Not to mention what else is going to be lost if the filings go in your motor.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 30th, 05, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

OK, so I spent the weekend, or at least chunks of it, on the engine. Happy to say she is running strong. Strong I say. I just adjusted the valves again and it seems I got lucky with the cam lobe.

I went with option 2 (see above), but the cheapo version in honor of my grandfather would have fixed it with bailing wire.

I put the lifter back together and used it along with a $2 pushrod and a $16 gasket set. NAPA didn't have an SBC lifter (though that is hard to believe) forcing me to use the old one...though the lifter did have very subtle swirl marks on it as though it had been turning and in good contact with the lobe. Further inspection of the lobe looked good as did the lifter. The NAPA guy gave the lifter his nod of approval. To quote him: "as long as it is not cracked go ahead and use it."

Not his car.

So far so good.

Running a new carb too and finally have the vacuum leaks in hand. Smooth low idle, good power, have yet to set the timing after finding the last vacuum leak, but running very strong.

Just need to diagnose my GEN light being on all the time and can drive her.

Next weekend I will deal with the Delcotron, check the compression all around and tune it. I will also sell a spare Corvair engine I have in reserve to buy some tires for the Camaro so we can ride a bit.

Cautiously happy.

Darrin
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 05, 09:03 AM
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

If I were you I would run to the local liquor store and buy several Lottery tickets. There was either no damage at all to the lifter or cam lobe, or you will be replacing the cam and lifters in your near future. You are not out of the woods yet, keep a very close eye on your valve adjustment for that lobe. I take it this is a hyd. cam?

Good luck with it.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 05, 09:40 AM
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

Agreed with Royce, too late to buy a Lotto ticket, Oregon Lottery has already been won.

Lifter foot with a straightedge across it will show its a "crown." Straightedge across the cam lobe on its base circle will show the lobe is slanted to one side, except for the "nose," its flat across it. This interface is what makes the lifter & pushrod turn.

I use 1 inch long intake bolts. I keep close tabs on valve adjustment to watch for lobes being eaten alive.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 05, 10:30 AM
 
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

Im glad you got it going I didnt mean to sound crude I was just stating the options and possible effect. I know how money is I was raised using bailing wire as a fix on a farm. I hope it stays together for you that would be awsome. I am concerned, like others, though cams and lifters are one part of the engine that is just so darn touchy about mating surfaces. Keep a close watch on that rocker arm adjustment.

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 05, 12:54 PM
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

Nothing wrong with baling wire or twine. As you, I've used it many a time.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 05, 05:00 PM
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everett#2390
Nothing wrong with baling wire or twine. As you, I've used it many a time.
sometimes...

anyone wanna run a book on how long before the lobe goes flat?
I'll take 2 weeks for a hundred.





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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 05, 05:20 PM
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

LOL @ Jim. I was trying to think positive for his sake. I doubt the cam lives very long. The only chance it has on living is if it was not actually damaged. If it was munched as he described, his success may be measured in hours not days.

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 05, 06:30 PM
 
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

Come on guys take it easy. Has he cranked it again? If hes driving it I give him 75 miles on standard 30wt. oil 100 miles on pure synthetic. J/K Sorry I couldnt help myself. Seriously Im praying it lives for his sake. Metal filings in the entire motor requires a lot more work.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 05, 07:47 PM
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

I bet he will be ok. It might be a good idea to pull the valve cover off while running and see if that pushrod is spinning. Once cams are broken in they are tougher than you think. I have seen alot worse happen and still the cam worked well for years.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 05, 04:34 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

Thanks Gents. I am realistic about the chances on this, but so far, so good. The lifter had been spinning during the break-in, so should be spinning now (I hope). I will keep close tabs on it. I did a running valve adjustment on that side and it seems to be just like the rest of them and the valvetrain is quiet. I think the lifter actually only came apart when I went to adjust it (while it was bent). In fact, may have only been pinned by the intake bolt and bent when I went to adjust. Before that, the bent rod was actually moving up and down (there is a groove in the pushrod where the intake bolt was pushing) and the lifter was turning. The lobe did seem good on inspection and measured the same as the others.

How is that for positive thinking?

Yes it is hydraulic.

Thanks for the positive thoughts and the sober assessments.

I will post any further developments if you like.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old Nov 1st, 05, 10:01 AM
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Re: Exploded lifter (cont. of camshaft damage)

While I agree once the cam is brken in it's tougher than in the begining. What concerns me is this happened during break in, correct? The other thing that bothers me is he stated the surface was damaged. If the face of the lifter was damaged or the lobe was scuffed, it will die a painful death, no way around that. I wish there were pictures so we could see if it was actually damaged. He used terms like "exploded", "came apart", in either case the cam would die in a hurry. You have to look at a cam lobe and lifter like a set of very fine gears meshing, once you mess up a tooth or two the whole gear will eventually be eaten up. Why do you think the lifter spins? Once it stops spinning, the lobe will be wiped out.

The bent pushrod doesn't worry me, I have bent them before, with no other damage, but they were not bent as a result off too long a bolt.

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