327ci, 275HP, 4spd Muncie, 10bolt - Orgininal??? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 05, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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Brandon
 
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327ci, 275HP, 4spd Muncie, 10bolt - Orgininal???

Hello,

I just purchased a 1967 RS Camaro and I am trying to find out if I have an original numbers matching car on my hands. This is all new to me and I want to make modifications to the car, but I want to have the ability to put it back to original. So, I want to keep parts that are original to the car. I was trying to decipher through all this info on the web to see if it was possible to have a non-VIN# stamped 327ci. 275HP connected to a Muncie 4 speed and finally connected to a 10 bolt non-positraction without a radius rod rearend.

The VIN Tag Reads:
04C = 3rd Week of April I148 = ???
ST 67-12437 LOS-31884 BODY = 1967, Sport Coupe, Standard Interior, Van Nuys
TR 760-Z Y-Y PAINT = Black Standard Interior with Buckets, Butternut Yellow Paint
E 2B 3L = All Tinted Windows, Rear Defogger, Rally Sport Package

The Engine Stamp Reads:
V0322MK = Flint Motor Company, March 22nd, 327ci, 275HP, Manual Transmission
Note: On the front of the engine it has two holes right below where the intake manifold and block meet, above the timing chain cover. It looks like at some point it had a tag or some type of identification riveted to the block. Also, the block does not have the vin # behind or in front of the engine stamp code.

The Transmission Reads:
P7C28 = Muncie 4 Speed, March 28th, 1967
Casting #3885010 = 1965 1967
US Patent #3088336 = ???
38575584GM = ???

The Fisher Body Cowl Tag Reads:
124377153956 = Chevrolet, Camaro, 8 Cylinder, Coupe Body, 1967, Los Angeles, Ca.


The Rear Axle/Differential Reads:
PA0331G1 = March 31st, Chevrolet, First Shift
3894859 = 10 Bolt
Casting C207 = March 20th, 1967


I am trying to find out if the block, transmission, and reared is original to the car. If so, it sounds like it has the L30 option. I have read that cars built early in the year (1967) did not have the vin # stamped on the block. Did they stamp them in the 3rd week of April 1967? I am finding conflicting articles on the 10 bolt and 12 bolt rearends. Also, I am reading conflicting articles on the radius rod.

HELP!!! Comments???
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 05, 08:51 AM
 
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Smile Re: 327ci, 275HP, 4spd Muncie, 10bolt - Orgininal???

"MK", that's what it is!

All motors had the VIN stamped on the block that I know of. That is the law!!

And only the SS and the March, '67 and later Z-28 cars got the 12 bolt UNLESS it was special ordered.

My car is an Oct. '66 year, special order '67, 350SS/RS. I got it in early Dec., '66.

pdq67



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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 05, 09:03 AM
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Re: 327ci, 275HP, 4spd Muncie, 10bolt - Orgininal???

read this: http://www.camaros.org/l30m20.shtml
It's my understanding that L30/M20 cars had a saginaw trans and a 12 bolt rear. You can spot the saginaw by the iron case with all 3 shift levers coming out of the side cover of the trans. A muncie is alluminum and the reverse lever comes out of the tailshaft. That said, your dates seem to line up pretty good. Wonder why there is no vin on the engine?





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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 05, 10:02 AM
 
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Question Re: 327ci, 275HP, 4spd Muncie, 10bolt - Orgininal???

Good one Jim b/c I wasn't aware of that combination? BUT I will say that I figure it could have been piece-meal ordered like I special ordered mine!

Nothing on the VIN deck pad by the pass. side upper water pump bolt??

And two small drive-screw-like holes?? I bet it is either a remanufactured block that has been restamped OR a GM over-the-counter short/long block?

And the only way you will know is to take a head off and look at the pistons as well as post the last three digits of your two heads casting numbers, (like -462)..

Fwiw, usually the "V0322MK" is on the block's deck pad that I'm asking about along with a really long number under it that is the VIN. It's usually a smaller sized stamping if I remember right?

(And the "MK", (if this is indeed a part of the VIN?), decodes the vehicle type)...

ONE last point is that some of the Machinists have mentioned decking blocks in such a way that the VIN is still left on SO just maybe your block had the long number string closer to the cylinder hole than the "V0322MK" and the block was decked too far and removed the number string, but left that part of the VIN?????

I figure if that is the case, your fingernail will be able to feel any sort of machined step there....

pdq67



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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 05, 01:22 PM
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Re: 327ci, 275HP, 4spd Muncie, 10bolt - Orgininal???

I dont think the 67 engines had VIN stampings. Didnt they start doing that in the 68 model year??

I have an original never taken apart 1967 327/275hp HC code engine out of an Impala that has no VIN on it anywhere. It still has "HC" chalk marks on the front of the head

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 05, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 327ci, 275HP, 4spd Muncie, 10bolt - Orgininal???

Thanks fo all the replies!!!

"MK" on the engine assembly stamp is 327ci 275HP Manual Transmission.

All motors have the engine assembly stamp, but at some point, early in 1967, the partial VIN was added to the engine assembly #.

Mid year (Dec.) of 1967 a radius rod was added to the 12bolt cars to lessen wheel hop. Around March of 1967 the 10bolt was replaced by the 12bolt as standard equip on performace models.

M20 is for 4 speed wide ratio trans and could be a Saginaw or Muncie depending on the model (camaros.org). The casting code indicates a Muncie M21 (close ratio) and "P" in the assemby stamp indicates a Muncie...the case is alum.

I double checked the block pad and the partial VIN was not present.

I checked on replacement engines from the factory and they start with C=Chev, L=Olds, B=Buick, P=Pontiac. The second letter is E=Engine or T=Trans. The third is the year digit and the next five is the sequence #.

Again, thanks for the help.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 05, 03:35 PM
 
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Smile Re: 327ci, 275HP, 4spd Muncie, 10bolt - Orgininal???

My early, '66 car 350's block had the whole VIN on it..

Two sizes of stampings if I recall right..

That one like he listed was like a 1/4" tall and the numbers were like 3/16" or anyway, smaller?

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 05, 04:19 PM
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Re: 327ci, 275HP, 4spd Muncie, 10bolt - Orgininal???

VIN stamps on engines wern't required by law until 1968. Only the high performance engines in 1967 had the VIN stamped on them. 327/275 wouldn't necessarily be considered a high perf. engine, so no VIN is normal.
L30/M20 would have a Saginaw trans. Where does the speedometer cable enter the firewall on your car?

John
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 05, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 327ci, 275HP, 4spd Muncie, 10bolt - Orgininal???

Kyvox, good point. I found that a Saginaw would pierce the firewall on the drivers side of the steering column. I inspected the car and the speedometer exits the trans on the passenger side, but pierces the firewall on the drivers side. So, it is possible that this trans does not match. The good news is that this trans seems to be a better than the Saginaw or at least an upgrade.

It seems possible that the motor matches eventhough it does not have the partial VIN #.

The last thing I wanted to know is if the 327ci 275HP would be linked to a 10bolt without the Radius Rod in April of 1967. I am still trying to determine if the rearend is original to the car.

Thanks.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 05, 06:14 PM
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Re: 327ci, 275HP, 4spd Muncie, 10bolt - Orgininal???

If it is the original engine, a 327/275hp engine, and 4spd original as in a L30/M20 (which would be a iron cast Saginaw, not a Muncie), it would have gotten a 12 bolt AND the radius rod in April 67.

Christropher

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Last edited by clwilcox33; Nov 20th, 05 at 06:51 PM.
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