Removed top end, what should I check for? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 05, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Removed top end, what should I check for?

I pulled the distributor, alternator, intake, water pump, timing cover, headers and heads off the car. For those that don't know, I was having missing issues around 3500 rpm. The most noticeable symptom was the exhaust cackling once the rpm was reached, and then when manually shifted the noise goes away until the rpm was reached again. With the noise, I noticed carboned and oily plugs, and I noticed a fallback in power with the noise. In addition I had (a couple times) seen a gray haze out of the exhaust after accelerating hard or revving.I checked for external vacuum leaks, reset the valve adjusmtent, reset the timing, installed a new pickup coil in the distributor, tested the the distributor components, checked for spark, installed new wires, installed new plugs, checked fuel pressure out of the pump, and pulled the fuel filter in the inlet to check for a restriction. None of the above helped.

Now that I have the top end off, what can I check?
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

Took a look at the lifters. They all look basically brand new. Then I took a look at the springs. The outer springs all looked fine. Thought the inner springs looked fine too. That was until I took a screwdriver and poked around in there. The inner springs for the 1-5-7 intake valves are all broke in two. What would cause this? And what would this cause?
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 02:11 PM
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

How old are the springs/heads? Ever been worked on before? What cam is in the engine?
If they're old(er) originals, like 30 years old, they just broke from age. Or they could have broken from being mismatched from the cam or maybe from over-revving.

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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

They were bought rebuilt approximately 1500 miles ago. The engine has a 292H cam in it. Spring specs from the rebuilder are 125lb Seat/325 Open PSI, 1.800 Installed Height, 1.250 Dia, 1.110 Coil Bind. FWIW That's what they told me.
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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 04:31 PM
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

Look for oil deposit on the back side of the intake valves. Sure sign of bad guides.

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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 04:49 PM
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

I would look at the color of the valve heads in the chambers, too. If all the cylinders were firing properly, the valve heads will be all the same color. Piston tops, too. Also carefully inspect the head gaskets for any signs of poor sealing.





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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 05:29 PM
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

Sorry, didn't see the heads were off. Definitely take the valves out and have the guides measured. Put good seals on the valves. Now is the time.

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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

The piston tops aren't all the same color. Some are shiny and dark, and some are completely dark. There is moisture on the valve heads as well. The head gaskets visually looked good, until I tryed wiping the moisture off of them which damaged them. They should be replaced anyways though.

I'll probably disassemble the heads tomorrow. I noticed that they have umbrella seals installed over the guides on all of them. Should I retain this style of sealing when I put the heads back together?
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 07:31 PM
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

did you pull the block drains before taking the heads off?
If you didn't, all the cylinders will have coolant in them.





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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

No I didn't. I had thought about it, it was a matter of messing with the headers. Those headers really get in the way. I soaked up the coolant that was in the cylinders with shop towels, and then coated the cylinder walls with lube. I plan on changing the oil anyways.

Probably not the proper thing to do.

Anyone know if I will have any piston to valve or cam to rod clearance issues by retarding the cam timing from 110/106 to 110/110? If not I may have to pull the engine and take it fully apart anyways.
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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 07:58 PM
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malibu Man
No I didn't. Those headers really get in the way.
Oh well, unfortunately, whatever story the pistons and valves had to tell was washed away.





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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

Not exactly, as some cylinders were dry due to the engine not sitting level, and the valves were naturally shut as well. Of course I drained the radiator, and the block down to the water pump ports. Really, there was only a small amount of coolant in the cylinders that had some. It wasn't a cup in each or anything. What can the pistons and valves tell?
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 08:26 PM
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimM
did you pull the block drains before taking the heads off?
If you didn't, all the cylinders will have coolant in them.
When I pulled my heads last week I took the rear lower head bolt out and let it drain. Then jacked the car up a little to get even more out. I got only a few drops in the rear cylinders.

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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 08:27 PM
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malibu Man
Not exactly, as some cylinders were dry due to the engine not sitting level, and the valves were naturally shut as well. Of course I drained the radiator, and the block down to the water pump ports. Really, there was only a small amount of coolant in the cylinders that had some. It wasn't a cup in each or anything. What can the pistons and valves tell?
On my engine the exhaust valve relief on each piston was caked with burned oil. And the intake valves were caked as well on the port side. The pistone cleaned up easily with a little laquer thinner. Change the oil as a precaution before turning the engine over with the startrer.

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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 05, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Removed top end, what should I check for?

That's essentially what I did as well. Removed all the outer bolts first before I preceded to loosen up the bolts by the springs. This brought the level to just below the deck, and the only coolant that entered the cylinders was just a small amount when pulling the heads off.

My exhaust valve reliefs are also carboned more so than the intakes, but the front and rear pistons are fully black on both sides, basically. The no. 6 piston was the cleanest with some carboning on the exhaust valve relief and below it. One strange thing is the exhaust valve heads on the the combustion chamber side of the driver side head are a very light tan, and the exhaust valve heads on the passenger side are a more brown color. All of the combustion chamber side intake valve heads are dark except for the no. 4 intake valve. I'll have to go over the inside valve heads and record what I see, but I do know for a fact that the ports all show to be wet with moisture. Not sure what from though.

I may as well inspect the transmission modulator while i'm at it because I thought I saw some moisture inside the fitting on the intake.
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