Matching Numbers - Cracked Block - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old Nov 29th, 05, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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Dan
 
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Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

Some of you may remember that recently I located the original engine for my plain jane 69 coupe....The motor was blown when I got it (A rod through the pan)...I was really hoping to be able to rebuild it but yesterday my engine builder called me to let me know that the motor had dropped a valve and destroyed one of the heads when it went. He also found a small crack in one of the cylinder walls.

He says It's no problem...lets just sleeve it and put new aluminum heads on it...To the tune of $4,400.00 (100% complete).

I know almost nothing about the internal workings of an engine and I'm not sure what to do.....HELP!!!!

Thanks in advance!

Dan
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old Nov 29th, 05, 10:05 AM
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Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

What does the $4,400 include? I have to question why you would want to save the numbers matching block only to put non numbers matching heads on it. If you want to build a hot rod engine that's great just use another block. If you are looking to have a numbers matching car then I would suggest tracking down a set of "correct" heads. Sleeving the block is fine and a good idea if you are trying to have an original car/engine.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old Nov 29th, 05, 11:34 AM
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Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

I agree with Royce, sleeve the block and find another head or set of heads. If you don't care about matching #'s, you can get a lot of motor for $4400. That seems really high to me.

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old Nov 29th, 05, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

Well, the engine builder kind of had me thinking that as long as it was a numbers matching block that that was the most important thing...How we built it really didn't matter.....But now you guys have me thinking a bit more clearly.

So even if the heads are not original but only "correct" that would help keep the originality as well as the worth of have a numbers matching motor?

FYI....he was going to rebuild the original 327 long block with the new alum. heads with roller rockers as well as all of the bolt on components needed. Polished intake, edelbrock carb, starter, alt, water pump, HEI dist....ect..ect..

I also have the crate motor that was in the car when I bought it that I can re-use. It was only 11 months old and only has 7,000 miles on it.

I guess I really did want to restore this car back mostly original....but it sounded kinda good to me to have the best both worlds...with originality and some HP....It looks like I need to pick one.....The whole "Cracked Block" thing had me very dissapointed from the start...

Thanks again for your input!

Dan
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 1st, 05, 09:45 AM
 
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Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

Dan,
If you have a nice crate motor with low miles, why not throw that in there for the time being? That way, while you're getting your original 327 sleeved, you can also be searching for correct date coded heads. Build the original engine to original specs, and keep it around. That way, if you ever want to sell the car, you'll have a freshly rebuilt all original motor to swap in, and bump up the value. Do you already have the correct carb, intake, distributer, etc. for the original motor? It just all depends on what you're going for. A complete all original car, or a nice Camaro with a little bit more grunt under the hood. Personally, I can't keep anything stock, but I do have a strong appreciation for those that put forth the time, money, and effort to keep these amazing machines all original. Temptation with performance parts is a b**ch. Good luck!
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 1st, 05, 05:24 PM
 
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Smile Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

IF you want to, then I suggest finding a big Diesel shop and ask them where they send their cracked diesel heads for furnace welding to like new??

Then send your head to them and pay to get it furnace-welded and finally have a valve job done so it is fixed and then sleeve your OEM block!!

All your numbers will then match like new..

pdq67



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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 1st, 05, 05:27 PM
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Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

I agree. If if the head isn't destroyed, then certainly furnace (thermokinetic) welding will get the job done. If you google thermokinetic welding, you should find a few outfits that specialize in fixing your problem.

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 1st, 05, 05:45 PM
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Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

Hmmm....
IF the cylinder requires a sleeve, part of the repair process will also require the block to be decked after the sleeve is installed.
When decking the block, you will lose your "numbers matching" stamping.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 1st, 05, 05:50 PM
 
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Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

Dan,

You may want to look around for another quote on getting it done too. There is a guy in AJ that is in the local Camaro club that does rebuild motors too...His name is Lance. If you want I can email you his email address and you can see if he has any ideas too...

Phil
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 1st, 05, 06:16 PM
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Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillsCamino
Hmmm....
IF the cylinder requires a sleeve, part of the repair process will also require the block to be decked after the sleeve is installed.
When decking the block, you will lose your "numbers matching" stamping.
There have been blocks that still had a legible stamp after being decked, and besides this process will be documented and witnessed by all of us, so I dont really see the big deal. Besides, if the damage is on the driver's side of the block, then that side of the block can be decked and the opposite head can be milled the same amount. No harm, no foul. And the stamp will still be there.

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 1st, 05, 11:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

Some great ideas all around.....The damage is on the passenger side....So I don't know if that means the "decking" will lose those numbers for sure. Also I do not have most of the bolt ons for the original motor....IE; carb, intake, distributor....I have the exhaust manifolds and some of the pullys and brackets that he installed on the crate motor.

I know I would love to see this engine go back to stock....But will it really help the value on a plain jane....w/ a sleeve to boot ?

The car was a real diamond in rough and I am so dissapointed about this block. I guess for the time being...I'm going to clean up the crate motor and shove it in there. And maybe get another opinion from a different engine builder....The builder I'm talking with said that the original head could not be saved for sure.....So Phil....I'll take the number to the guy in AJ....PM me!

Thanks, Dan
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 05, 06:40 AM
 
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Smile Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

Somebody has mentioned that it may be possible to just deck up to your VIN pad and stop and not lose them..

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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 05, 09:54 AM
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Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

Rack Man, spending $4000+ to make a 327 2 barrel car ~numbers matching~ is not a wise economic decision. If you want it numbers matching I think you need to forget about the cost and just do it. If you are more interested in future value of your 69 Camaro, making it a non-matching big block clone would probably be a more economically sound decision. ~jmo~ By the way, why would you need to deck the block if you have a sleeve put in? The top of the sleeve can be cut down with a bit in the boring bar to make it the same height as the top of the block. If a your machinest says ~because the deck will be distorted when the sleeve is installed~ ask what happens to the cylinders next to the sleeve.

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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 3rd, 05, 09:16 AM
 
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Smile Re: Matching Numbers - Cracked Block

You can fix everything AND then install a 350 or even a 380+ rotating assembly if you want AND nobody will know if you don't tell them.

Just use an internally balanced 380+ rotating assembly and a 350 balancer.....

Then go have fun.

Oh, almost forgot, add big valves and do some port and chamber work too at this stage so she will breath better...

Numbers all match...

pdq67



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