Help build my big small block - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 05, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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Dave
 
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Help build my big small block

I pulled my original 302 MO motor a few weeks ago. The plan was to merely clean up, do some minor head work and repaint while I did some front end work and rebuilt the M21 trans. Immediately after the motor was out I started second guessing myself. Yeah, it's cool driving around a 302 because of uniqueness but the entire motor is #'s matching and I drive my car hard. I started to consider storing the original and replacing it with a 400+ ci small block.

Don't get the idea that I have deep pockets just because I own an original Z/28 (I've owned since '94). The point being I don't have unlimited funds to build (or purchase) this new motor. I have been offered a never used motown block with 4-bolt splayed mains that has already been machined for a 4-inch stroke crank. They're asking $1800. I intend to use my holley 4053 carb, hooker 2 3/4 inch headers and whatever else I can recycle.

I'm looking for suggestions on what to build for these goals:

- displacement over 400 ci
- approx 450 rwhp
- minimal cost

68 Z/28, grotto blue, protect-o-plate
67 plain jane survivor, deep water blue, protect-o-plate
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 05, 08:37 AM
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Steve
 
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Re: Help build my big small block

I just pulled my 302 yesterday because I have been wanting to do some cleaning and touch up painting on it. I would never consider putting anything back in my Z28 but the 302 that came out even if I was given a motor. This motor is what makes a Z28 so special.

Your lucky to have your original engine so enjoy it, put it back in and use it but take care of it.

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 05, 10:05 AM
 
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Re: Help build my big small block

CONSIDER BUILDING A 415 SMALL BLOCK,LOTS OF TORQUE AT REASONABLE EXPENSE........OFFSET GRIND CRANK WITH SMALL JOURNAL RODS AND KEITH BLACK PISTONS.........ARP engine and your good to go www.hardcoreparts.ca
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 05, 10:55 AM
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Wes
 
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Re: Help build my big small block

Finding good std bore SB 400 blocks is becoming hard and ain't cheap.

I'd go 383 or 388 (388 = 350 w/ .060 and a stroker crank 3.75"...Scat has one for $450). I'm guessing a good 350 block is 1/2 to 1/3 the price of a 400 in same condition,..so if money is a concern,..

Then I'd find some good used rods (your machine shop will have a selection), some new hypereutectic (sp?) pistons, and a hyd cam in the range of 220 to 225 @ .50.

Then I'd clean up your 186 heads, Z-intake and Holley, and enjoy the ride.

I'm guessing all the above with machine work and gasketry (is that a word?..it is now) would run $1500-2000 but you'd have a lot more power with the bore and stroke change,..especially down low. And from the top, it's still a Z-28 motor.

Good luck!
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 05, 11:16 AM
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Greg
 
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Re: Help build my big small block

If the budget is truely limited and HP goals are modest, I woud go the 383 route with a factory 4 bolt block. You will have to pay for some machine work but I still think you would be $1000 ahead that way. Aftermarket blocks are very nice, but a factory block and handle 500 HP easily.

In fact, I think Revolutionary Performance sells a complete 383 short block for about what you are looking to pay just for the World block.

Also, I would not mind a bit pulling that 302 and setting it aside. Driving it is like driving gold. Throw a rod through the side of the block and you have just cost yourself thousands! A 383 will run a whole lot better anyway. JMHO.

69 Camaro, 3650lbs., 400ci, TH400, Coan 10" converter, 3.50 gear
D1SC, pump gas, street car, Water/Meth injection
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 05, 01:13 PM
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Wes
 
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Re: Help build my big small block

Agree the 302's were great from about 3500-7000,..but how often, percentage wise, do you spend in that zone? 10% maybe?

And at the track, in the day, a 302-Z ran in the 14's.

The 383 should bring her home in the 12's,..and would make good power from 2000 to 5500. This is where you live 90% of the time.

Very worth it.

And yeah, keep 302 handy for when it's time to sell the Z.

Again,..my opinion.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 05, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Dave
 
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Re: Help build my big small block

i poked around the web and it looks like going with a 350 4-bolt block and a 400 crank will save much needed dollars. i'll port match the stock intake and heads. a budget 383 with hyd roller cam may not make huge power with the fuelie heads but will certainly be less tempermental and maintenance free (no more valve lash adjustments) compared to the 302

68 Z/28, grotto blue, protect-o-plate
67 plain jane survivor, deep water blue, protect-o-plate
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 05, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Dave
 
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Re: Help build my big small block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight-line-69
And at the track, in the day, a 302-Z ran in the 14's.
yes, my 68 ran 14.2x at ~101-102 in summer 04 with 3.73's

68 Z/28, grotto blue, protect-o-plate
67 plain jane survivor, deep water blue, protect-o-plate
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 05, 02:22 PM
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Re: Help build my big small block

I'm pulling the 302 in my Z. I love the little DZ but like Greg O said, trashing the 302 will certainly cost you thousands. I'm building a 383 with very similar specs to the 302. That is, 11:1 compression, high duration solid lift cam, big heads, etc...As good as my 302 runs, I can't imagine how fun the new mill will be. I'm also going to keep my 4.56 in for a while to really have some fun.

If you're dead set on going with 400+ cubes, I think your best bet is to go with an aftermarket block unless you know of a good 400 block available. The 400s are getting harder and harder to find and when you do find one, chances are that it's cracked somewhere. Not to mention they are going up in price daily. There was a guy on here recently that went through 2 or 3 blocks and none were worthy of building. As I understand it, the aftermarket blocks come pretty well machined which is money you'd have to spend on the 400 if you did find one. When you factor this into the equation, the aftermarkets look a bit more attractive. Just some food for thought.

Let us know what you end up building.

Marty Lake
1969 Z/28 fathom green X77
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 05, 09:07 PM
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Wes
 
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Re: Help build my big small block

If it's a budget build, a new block is out of the question. Here's a pretty good deal on a new GM 400 block,..and it's $2000 plus ship:

http://69.20.110.81/index.asp?PageAc...D&ProdID=22743

Good used 4-Bolt 350 cores can be had for about $300.

But if money were no object,..how about this GM 400 bare block (aluminum):

http://69.20.110.81/index.asp?PageAc...D&ProdID=22326

Last edited by Straight-line-69; Dec 28th, 05 at 10:38 PM.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 05, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Dave
 
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Re: Help build my big small block

so if I stick with my stock Z/28 intake and fuelie heads what is the max displacement I should go with? I'm sure over a certain size 383 or 406? the heads will be choking the engine. if I go with a 383 I think I can keep the cost below $2000 including porting my heads.

68 Z/28, grotto blue, protect-o-plate
67 plain jane survivor, deep water blue, protect-o-plate
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 05, 09:23 PM
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Wes
 
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Re: Help build my big small block

Well, in the day, 400's came with smaller heads (usually 882's) than the 186's you have. This combo made enough torque to push around your dad's stationwagon pretty good.

So, with your 186's, a 1000 pound lighter car, the 780 Vac Holley, spunkier gearing w/ 4-Speed, etc, I think it'll work great. Just don't go crazy with the cam choice (again, I'd keep it under 225 @ .50).

There is a slight mod that your machine shop can do to your heads,..they'll need to drill little steam relief holes needed for 400's to allow for improved cooling. Do a search on this site,..if you need further explanation (or call your machine shop,..they'll be familiar).

Good luck!
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 05, 09:55 PM
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Re: Help build my big small block

For the money the 383 is the way to go. 450 hp out of a 383 isn't too hard. Your heads and intake should get you to @ 450 hp "with some work". If your not going to spin over 6k or run NOS you can save some coin and get a nice "cast " set up from Eagle. http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...7&autoview=sku
Good parts for the money. If you can clearance the block yourself even more money saved.


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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 05, 10:42 PM
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Keith
 
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Re: Help build my big small block

If you want a suggestion on heads, go to Summit Racing's web site and enter keywords 'summit cylinder heads'. Take a look at their heads part number 152123. They'll out flow your stock heads, use regular valve covers, and have dual quench fast burn chambers. They're set up for up to a .550 lift hyd. cam, and at $650 for the pair, you'll have more than that in you heads. They're not a race head, but a good step up from stock at a good price.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old Dec 30th, 05, 07:13 AM Thread Starter
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Dave
 
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Re: Help build my big small block

the more I look around it looks like a 383 will be the way to go in order to keep the costs way down

68 Z/28, grotto blue, protect-o-plate
67 plain jane survivor, deep water blue, protect-o-plate
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