No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE! - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 07, 01:36 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

Thanks to anyone willing to read this who might have had similar problems. I have spent 2 days reading posts on electrical and ignition issues searching for answers and am out of clues. I tried what seem all Jim and David's tests and still nothing.

My 67 327 was running great last weekend. Went to move it Sunday for a wash and it wouldnt start. Checked fuel system and it was ok. CHecked electrical and found no spark. I recently replaced the stock coil with a CD coil and digital ignition box from Summit so called them to help trouble shoot. We concluded it was the ignition box so they sent me a new one. Replacement installed, same problem, no spark, but the starter cranks like a champ. I reinstalled the old coil that was fine when I replaced it, and redid the wiring like it was originally, but still no spark. Getting power in the wire to the distributor (a MSD Ready to Run Magnetic non points #8360). Get voltage at the coil with key on, but nothing out of the distributor. Checked the rotor and cap which seem to be fine. IT turns over in neutral and park, and tried jumping the neutral safety switch and moving the shift lever while cranking but makes no difference. I am at a total loss. How could this system run so great the night before and then the next day not have any spark?? HELP!
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 07, 06:40 AM
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

A good test to check the coil and secondary side is:
1. Disconnect the primary wires to the coil.
2. Ground neg post of coil.
3. Disconnect plug wire the rotor is pointing to and insert a spark plug, hold ground electrode onto ground.
4. Hook a hot wire from battery and for less than second, apply & release hot wire to pos coil terminal = spark should occur at plug gap.

This checks primary winding of coil and complete high voltage section of ignition, at least for the one cylinder.

You might take off the dist cap and measure the pick-up coil resistance, s/b low ohms, maybe 1000 ohms.

Redid wiring, do you mean OE points set-up?

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 07, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

Everett,
Many thanks for this. I will try checking the coil and distributor as you suggest when I get home. My distributor is an MSD ProBillet magnetic, ready to run. When I put in the new CD coil and ignition box, i did away with the yellow wire from the starter solenoid to the coil. I also bypassed the resistor wire with heavier guage wire to the ignition box. But whether I use the old stock coil and original wiring setup, or the new CD coil and ignition box, I get no spark. With your method, I should be able to tell where the power is circuiting inside the distributor. So far, I can only tell there is power to the coil and power to the distributor, but not whether there is power out of the coil. Also, can you clarify what is primary and what is secondary as far as the coil?
thanks
Steve
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 07, 02:54 PM
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

After a wash, it's common to get moisture under the cap. Try spraying the cap with WD-40 and wiping it with a rag.

Dave
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 1st, 07, 03:39 PM
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by smiller View Post
Everett, Many thanks for this.
You're welcome.
Quote:
Also, can you clarify what is primary and what is secondary as far as the coil? thanks, Steve
Primary side is the low voltage side, battery voltage lead from ign switch, point set, primary coil of ignition coil, and distributor body to ground connection.

Secondary side is the high voltage side, secondary coil of ign coil, rotor, dist cap, plug wires, coil wire, and spark plugs.

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 2nd, 07, 01:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

Well Everett,
I tried your test using the new CD coil and got no spark out of the distributor. THen I checked the resisitence of the magnetic pickup in the distributor by putting leads on the positive and negative leads coming out of the distributor and got 1940 ohms. Then I checked the voltage to the distributor from the lead going to the distributor from ignition and got 12.4 volts. I'll try it tomorrow in the daylight with the original coil and see if I can induce spark.
I checked grounds and have good ground from dist. to firewall, from engine to firewall and from fender to frame. Again, it was running and starting great, then the next morning - no spark.
If it was a neutral safety switch would it turn over in both park and neutral? Any other clues?
Thanks for everything so far.
Steve
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 2nd, 07, 07:59 PM
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

Steve,
Let's go back a little.... Have you confirmed that the distributor rotor is actually turning while the engine is being cranked? The reason I ask is because there is a roll-pin that holds the drive gear to the distributor shaft. Sometimes they shear for uncommon reasons. If the shaft isn't rotating, well, that could be the cause of the problems you describe. ...Jb

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 2nd, 07, 08:46 PM
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

Before or after the wash.Do not rule out spark scatter under the cap when a hot engine and cold water mix.Condensation under the cap will spark scatter and foul plugs=no start.Correct the spark scatter is not a sure fix.At this point..the plugs may be saturated and add another dimension to to the fail.It is possible for one fail to lead into another and should not be ruled out.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 2nd, 07, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

Good thought Johnny. Yes I did test it when I took the cap off to check the rotor. I have a remote starter hooked up so I can turn it over and look for spark from the engine compartment.
Thanks for the input.
Steve
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 2nd, 07, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

Thanks George. GOod advise. I'll double check for moisture.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 3rd, 07, 04:56 AM
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

After you find a coil to bench test and work, use the same coil on the engine.
Your measurement of the pickup coil shows it good.
Have a spare plug laying out and ground the casing/ground electrode and hook up the coil lead to plug, so you can see all the spark, not just for one cylinder, hook up the remote starter, and open the throttle to WOT so the carb won't flood the engine. Maybe have a box fan running to blow away the vapor to prevent a fire.

While cranking, measure the coil voltage at the positive (+) terminal to ground. No voltage, bad box or bad connection from pickup coil to box. If using a quality DMM, look at the analog scale/line on the bottom of the display, it reacts faster than the readout/number scale.

Do you have a points ditributor or HEI you can substitute?
Are plugs dry or wet with fuel?

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 4th, 07, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

Everett,
Thanks for sticking with me. I found the original coil was good and the Summit box was good since I got spark thru it from the coil, but nothing out of the distributor. So it seems the new Summit coil was bad And the distributor. BUT how could they go bad just sitting overnight? Had they blown out or shorted or whatever while I was driving, how would I have made it home? I caved in and sent my distributor back to MSD for test and repair and bought a new coil. I'll let you know once I get it running again, but I may never know what caused this.
Many thanks again,
Steve
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 07, 04:33 AM
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by smiller View Post
Everett,
Thanks for sticking with me.
You're welcome.
Quote:
BUT how could they go bad just sitting overnight? Many thanks again, Steve
The distributor probably broke from a voltage spike either at start up or shut down. Or from a cold solder joint on it's circuit board.

Same for the coil, bad solder joint inside, or primary coil opened up from too much current if box was in another operating state at either shut down or turn-on.

When a mechanical switch opens/closes, it's not a clean break. Viewing with an oscillscope, one will see multiple spikes. These spikes reek havoc with electronics. Ever listen to an AM transistor radio and here the noise from the speaker when turning on? Same principle applies here.

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 5th, 07, 06:12 AM
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

If this is a non point distributor (HEI I presume).Sounds like the ignition control module inside the distributor might have gone bad. My car ran fine one day died the next, it cranked but no success. I changed the coil, wire, spark plugs, checked timing nothing seemed to help. Turned out to be the ICM, after i replaced it, I had no problem since. Hope this helps.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 07, 02:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: No Spark. NEED HELP PLEASE!

Quang and Everett
Just want to thank you for your input and report back. I replaced the distributor (couldnt wait for MSD repair service) and the coil and finally got her running tonight! After 2 weeks of trouble shooting and redo ing all my ignition wiring, just the fact that it runs made me feel so good that it lets me forget about the cost. That said, i just dont want to go thru this again, so your explanations are greatly appreciated. Thanks to all who chimed in on this post.
Steve
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