New Starter needed - Team Camaro Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical.

 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 17th, 08, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Mike
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,238
New Starter needed

Trying to get my car started and to no avail. Think I found an intermittent wire but after replacing it, I 'd cranked this motor so much, the starter just went unk!
And all the smoke came out.

So I'm pretty sure its done.

Looking around at starters on line, I saw that the MSD starter supports 17:1 compression.

What do the TC members think about the MSD starter?
Any here had experience with it?

Also, I have shims on my current starter, should I use those with the new starter?
I had to shim it when I got a new flex plate. Sometimes the starter wouldn't hit square enough and I would hear a zzzziiiiip sound. I had to go under with a flex plate tool and move it a tiny bit.
Then it would catch so I shimmed it.
Will I need to use those shims again or are all these starters different.

This is a BBC, high compression with a T400.

Thanks for any help!!
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 18th, 08, 09:54 PM Thread Starter
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Mike
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,238
Re: New Starter needed

Just curious as to what you all think of the MSD starter?

It says it will handle up to 17:1 compression. Which is way more than I got but I'd rather it be too strong than not strong enough.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 08, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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Mike
 
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Re: New Starter needed

Anyone here use an MSD starter?
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 25th, 08, 03:23 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ashby,MN, USA
Posts: 8,305
Re: New Starter needed

GM includes a late model production permanent magnet starter with all their "ready to run" big block crate motors- right on up to the biggest 572- so i think i'd be looking at one of those.
just go to your favorite auto parts store and order a starter for a late 90's pickup with a 454.

you don't plan sincerity.
you have to make it up on the spot.

wanna hear about 20 years ago when i was too smart to know any better?
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 25th, 08, 08:44 PM
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Greg
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Marino, CA
Posts: 278
Re: New Starter needed

The MSD starter is a very pretty starter that no one will ever see. You could buy another mini starter that will perform just as good for $100 less. All of these come with shims and mounting bolts.

For example look at Summit SUM-829000

68 383, TH-350, 3.55 Eaton Posi, Holley SA 770, RPM Air Gap, World Sportsman II, ISKY Roller Cam
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 26th, 08, 08:34 AM
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Charlie
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Baltimore Maryland
Posts: 3,759
Re: New Starter needed

I use the PowerMaster Torque XS. I believe it can support 18:1 and has a 4.40:1 gear reduction. I have had the starter for about a year and it has yet to let me down(knock on wood). My engine spins over very nicely. No lag at all.

Charlie Knudsen 67 Camaro RS/SS 350 TKO 600, 4.10's, AFR 195 Street Heads, Comp 270H, Rhoads Lifters, Crane Ignition, Pertronix Dizzy, Performer RPM Q-Jet, Heavily Modified Q-Jet, Hooker Comp Headers, MagnaFlow 2 1/2", 144 Decibles(Alpine CDA-7998 Head Unit, RF X7 and RF 750X Amps, MB Quart Mid's & High's, Kicker L7 12" Solo Barics)
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 08, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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Mike
 
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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Re: New Starter needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by emperor91108 View Post
The MSD starter is a very pretty starter that no one will ever see. You could buy another mini starter that will perform just as good for $100 less. All of these come with shims and mounting bolts.

For example look at Summit SUM-829000
I wasn't interested in it for looks, I wanted it because it says it supports up to 17:1 compression.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 08, 09:46 AM
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Location: Fairfield, CA
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Re: New Starter needed

Get a starter off a diesel block - it'll support 20+ compression....
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 08, 12:12 PM
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erik
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: back creek, nc, usa
Posts: 646
Re: New Starter needed

GM oem starters for 88-98 big blocks will turn anything you have over just fine. Just go to a local parts house and get one. The bolt holes will be stagerd and it will bolt up and work great. Just like mine!! One piece of advise is don't try and start ANY gear reduction starter with a weak battery. The outer gear is plastic and the torque of the starter will shread it quick, I found out the hard way! All the aftermarket pricey starters are gear reduction and use the same pm generated motor. At least with a factory part like I mentioned above you can shop and get one cheap, use yours as a core and if it ever messes up take it back and get another one. No aftermarket starter company will do that for the lfe of your car. Just my .02
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 28th, 08, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Mike
 
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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Re: New Starter needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by tumper View Post
GM oem starters for 88-98 big blocks will turn anything you have over just fine. Just go to a local parts house and get one. The bolt holes will be stagerd and it will bolt up and work great. Just like mine!! One piece of advise is don't try and start ANY gear reduction starter with a weak battery. The outer gear is plastic and the torque of the starter will shread it quick, I found out the hard way! All the aftermarket pricey starters are gear reduction and use the same pm generated motor. At least with a factory part like I mentioned above you can shop and get one cheap, use yours as a core and if it ever messes up take it back and get another one. No aftermarket starter company will do that for the lfe of your car. Just my .02
Plastic?
Are they all like that?
Why in Christ's name would they make something like that out of plastic? I really wonder about engineers sometimes.

So why does starting them with a low battery cause them to shred?

Thanks for the advice.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 29th, 08, 07:26 AM
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erik
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: back creek, nc, usa
Posts: 646
Re: New Starter needed

The only thing I can figure they make the gear from plastic is to keep noise down! Since these starters are gear reduction they have enough power to turn the engine slowly even with a low battery but not fast enough to allow the engine to actually start. The starter motor actually has enough torque to continue to turn but begins to apply force to the outer sun gear of the planetary inside since it cannot turn fast enough. If you ever had a nitro powered gas r/c car it is the same way, you drive the car in grass or anything with resistence it shears teh gear because the resistence of the grass causes the drivetrain to stop or slow and the engine has more power than the gear can transmit because of the resistence. The gear is the safety or weak link. This happened to mine when I tried to start it after putting the car together. I have an Optima yellow top and a GM starter and I didn't charge it before trying and I kept trying because it would turn over but not quite fast enough, then after a few tries the starter just spun inside itself. At least if you get one from a parts house with a lifetime warranty and it does ever do this you can just take it back and get a replacement for free. I didn't buy one like this, I got one from ebay and when mine messed up, I came to work disassembled it and found the problem and found a starter that was going back as a core that I was able to remover the sun gear from and fix mine. I have a 10.73:1 motor and it works great and will turn over anything. It is your best value if you ever have a problem. The aftermarkets will not be any better but will not have a warranty past a year which is when a problem always presents itself.
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