Run on Starter - Team Camaro Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical.

 
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old Apr 4th, 08, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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Jason
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 156
Run on Starter

Well, that's the best way to explain it. Just wrapped up re-wiring the car with the Classic Update Kit and replaced everything to include ignition switch. Car worked fine before...just wiring was a rats nest. Go to start the car and turns over and starts, but the Key doesn't "bounce back", if that makes sense. It just stays in the far right mode..imagine starting the car...well instead of having that little extra right turn where the engine turns over then when it starts you let the key go. Mine isn't doing that, it just starts turning over in what I would call the ACC position.

Now, one point...I have an aftermarket Pro-Tourqe mini starter that only had the + and 1 post, not the 2 like on the older starter. I ran both the wires (don't recall the colors off the top of my head) to the same post, even thought the Classic Kit said to run one to the "S" terminal I think and the other to the "R" terminal. Anyway I think you know what I mean...not sure if that is the issue or not but something is not right.

Thanks in advance and tomorrow I'll dig up the color wires and what they actually are (Coil and something else).

JD

1968 Camaro Coupe 327 worked over
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old Apr 4th, 08, 08:30 PM
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Len Barron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oceanside, CA.
Posts: 472
Re: Run on Starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post
Well, that's the best way to explain it. Just wrapped up re-wiring the car with the Classic Update Kit and replaced everything to include ignition switch. Car worked fine before...just wiring was a rats nest. Go to start the car and turns over and starts, but the Key doesn't "bounce back", if that makes sense. It just stays in the far right mode..imagine starting the car...well instead of having that little extra right turn where the engine turns over then when it starts you let the key go. Mine isn't doing that, it just starts turning over in what I would call the ACC position.

Now, one point...I have an aftermarket Pro-Tourqe mini starter that only had the + and 1 post, not the 2 like on the older starter. I ran both the wires (don't recall the colors off the top of my head) to the same post, even thought the Classic Kit said to run one to the "S" terminal I think and the other to the "R" terminal. Anyway I think you know what I mean...not sure if that is the issue or not but something is not right.

Thanks in advance and tomorrow I'll dig up the color wires and what they actually are (Coil and something else).

JD
If you hooked both the purple and yellow wires to the same post on the solenoid then that's your problem. Disconnect the yellow from the solenoid and see if it starts properly. If it does you have the later style switch and you're good, just tape up that yellow lead. If it only catches the start as you release the key then you'll need to install a diode (or relay) in line with the yellow lead to power the coil when the ignition switch is in the "start" position.

Len
67 SS-350 Convert.
406/200r4/12b 3.73's Truetrac

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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old Apr 4th, 08, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Jason
 
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Posts: 156
Re: Run on Starter

Definitely hooked both to the same post...I'll give this a try in the am....and hopefully piss of the neighbors

1968 Camaro Coupe 327 worked over
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old Apr 4th, 08, 08:43 PM
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Don
 
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Re: Run on Starter

Not sure what else you have wrong, but the key should "bounce "back from start to on.

Don
TC # 349
Zdld17:69 Z/RS,306, NOR141111, 9N554XXX, 12A, X3G, 59/59,723, AFR 195,CCC282/290HR, TKO 600, BU1122B1E Owner since Dec 1968

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old Apr 5th, 08, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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Jason
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Maryland
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Re: Run on Starter

All right there gents...well disconnecting the yellow wire give me nothing as that is connected to the positive side of my coil. So I looked at my old harness (pretty smart, huh!) and noticed that it only had the battery and yellow wire...no purple (which in this case should connect to the S terminal). Anyway fired it back up and the starter won't stop spinning (I'd be surprised if I have any teeth left on the flywheel). So I decided to check the instructions for the starter online (really smart now) and this is what they say:

What do I do with the wire that went to the ‘R’ terminal on the original starter?

In early original wiring harnesses, the ‘R’ circuit was a ballast resistor bypass. This terminal is ‘no connection’ when the starter is at rest, and is +12VDC while cranking.This circuit provided +12VDC to the ignition coil during cranking for easier engine starting. Cars that do not have a ballast resistor (i.e. HEI, MSD, or other aftermarket ignition systems) should not need this connection. In most cases, this wire can be eliminated. If the engine has no ignition during cranking, then the wiring of the coil is going to require an ‘R’ terminal signal. To accomplish this, connect a 3A/400PIV diode (or Powermaster part # 600 ) in line with the MOTOR SIDE of the solenoid. (Note: This is the terminal on the solenoid which has the cable from inside the starter motor connected to it. It is opposite the BATTERY terminal on the solenoid. The cathode or banded end of the diode goes away from the starter. This allows current to go from the starter to the coil and yet not from the coil to the starter.)

So from this and from the first response it would appear that I need this resistor to stop the flow of electricity to the starter after it has cranked, but still allow it to flow from the starter to the coil.

Sound correct?

1968 Camaro Coupe 327 worked over
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old Apr 5th, 08, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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Jason
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 156
Re: Run on Starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by zdld17 View Post
Not sure what else you have wrong, but the key should "bounce "back from start to on.
It does actually have the "bouncy" space at the end of the ignition (sorry couldn't think of a better way to say it) but in my case I don't need to turn the key to this position to start it....all I need to do is turn the key to the last "click" prior to the "bouncy" space, hence the starter stays spinning instead of only engaging for a second and then releasing.

I'm gonna pull the ignition switch yet again and see if I can determine what is causing this...maybe a faulty switch but I can't reuse my existing NEW switch because AAW used a different post pattern on the back of the switch. I guess I could wire it manually, but what a PITA.

Anyway let me go give that a whirl.....

1968 Camaro Coupe 327 worked over
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old Apr 5th, 08, 08:41 PM
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Len Barron
 
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Location: Oceanside, CA.
Posts: 472
Re: Run on Starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnipotent View Post

So from this and from the first response it would appear that I need this resistor to stop the flow of electricity to the starter after it has cranked, but still allow it to flow from the starter to the coil.

Sound correct?
Nope, a resistor won't do it. You'll need a diode (electrical check valve) to allow flow to the coil but not back from the coil to the starter.
A diode in the 10amp/50volt range should easily do the trick. That's what I'm putting in.

Len
67 SS-350 Convert.
406/200r4/12b 3.73's Truetrac

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