CS130 Wiring Question - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 08, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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CS130 Wiring Question

I want to throw my 1-wire in the trash can and put on a CS130. I've already bypassed the voltage regulator when I did the 1-wire conversion. I'm not sure I can still find my wire from the Idiot light and thinking about connecting the CS130 to another source within the eng. compt. using a resistor or different 3watt bulb. Can someone please advise where a good source for this connection would be? Or does it matter much as long as it gets connected with the light in the middle?

Thanks for any help or tips!!
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 08, 02:17 PM
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Re: CS130 Wiring Question

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Originally Posted by 68RS-SS View Post
I want to throw my 1-wire in the trash can and put on a CS130.
... I'm not sure I can still find my wire from the Idiot light and thinking about connecting the CS130 to another source within the eng. compt. using a resistor or different 3watt bulb.
... Can someone please advise where a good source for this connection would be? Or does it matter much as long as it gets connected with the light in the middle?

Thanks for any help or tips!!
congratulations on trashing your "One-wire"

As far as finding the original 'idiot' light wire - not necessary.
Just wire the "S" terminal to the Bat. or Bat supply wire and the "L" to a KEY-On power source.
The alt. will now charge, but you won't have any indication if it's not working correctly unless you install and monitor a voltage-gauge.

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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 08, 07:40 PM
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Re: CS130 Wiring Question

Are you sure John? I haven't tried but if I recall from numerous posts the light wire is the regulator excitor wire. If you don't feed it some current through a resistance (like a resistor or a bulb) the alternator won't charge. It also seems that if you don't put some resistance in the light wire the regulator will burn up. Perhaps this is true for other alternators than the CS130.

Bill have you looked at the tech reference (accessed through the home page of this site)? Perhaps that will help you find what you're looking for. https://www.camaros.net/techref/ftecref14.html

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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 08, 08:25 PM
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Question Re: CS130 Wiring Question

I have wired several CS-130's into boats this way with no issues.
I was always told (or read ...) that the light was purely optional and not reguired and there was enough resistance in the adverage feed circuit to not cause any problem.
The only problem ones I've seen have had a 'hot' feeding the "L" v.s. a 12vdc switched - these cause the regulator to got to ground after a short while and take out the regulator and prevent charging.
Maybe he should run this by the 'Mad-Electrical' ( http://www.madelectrical.com/index.shtml ) type guys first for their comments.

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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 08, 08:40 PM
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Re: CS130 Wiring Question

I've also read things regarding problems with running the L wire directly to power, without some sort of resistance in it. I believe the alternator will charge and appear to work properlky, but will fail before long.

I recall a recent post where a member cooked several alternators before correcting the wiring.
I suppose I could be remembering it wrong though.

It shouldn't be hard to find the wire. It's dark brown, and it comes out of the harness with all the rest of the bundle on the drivers side of the rad support.
If the dash wiring is still pretty much intact, it is fed off the run circuit through a resister wire, and will work even if the gen light isn't connected.





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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old May 1st, 08, 08:01 AM
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Re: CS130 Wiring Question

One purpose of the 'idiot light' wire is to flash the field. Since the average alternator has no residual field magnetism, there is nothing to make it work until you introduce some small current through the field. I've seen 1500KW generators started with a pair of flashlight batteries.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old May 1st, 08, 08:19 AM
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Re: CS130 Wiring Question

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Originally Posted by JimM View Post
I've also read things regarding problems with running the L wire directly to power, without some sort of resistance in it. I believe the alternator will charge and appear to work properlky, but will fail before long.

I recall a recent post where a member cooked several alternators before correcting the wiring.
IF the alternator has AC Delco internal components and you wire the "L" with a full 12 volts it will cook the alternator in short order based on whatever the papers are that GM/AC Delco puts out about their stuff. Whether or not the alternator has AC Delco internal parts....who knows any more as it depends on whoever the builder/rebuilder got their parts from.

The "S" wire is for remote sensing and if you are going to connect it to the battery or charging lug at the back of the alternator....don't bother even hooking it up as that wire is NOT required and it does not help to use it to sense voltage at the lug or battery.

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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old May 1st, 08, 08:54 AM
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Re: CS130 Wiring Question

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Originally Posted by paulm View Post

The "S" wire is for remote sensing and if you are going to connect it to the battery or charging lug at the back of the alternator....don't bother even hooking it up as that wire is NOT required and it does not help to use it to sense voltage at the lug or battery.
What's the difference in alternator operation between connecting the sense wire to 12V or leaving it disconnected?
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old May 1st, 08, 09:13 AM
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Re: CS130 Wiring Question

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Originally Posted by onovakind67 View Post
What's the difference in alternator operation between connecting the sense wire to 12V or leaving it disconnected?
If you monitor voltage at the main power draw, which is at the splice near the horn relay, the alternator will maintain system voltage at that point based on feedback from that point. Monitoring voltage from the main power draw will maximize the performance of the electrical system as it keeps the system voltage at the optimum level at the main power draw.

If you monitor voltage at the charging lug or the battery there is no difference as with the "S" wire disconnected the alternator will use the charging wire to monitor system voltage....which is connected from the lug to the battery.


P.S. Ooops, in a stock setup the charging wire goes to the splice not directly to the battery. I guess my brain was stuck thinking about previous posts where people said to run the charging wire directly to the battery.

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Last edited by paulm; May 1st, 08 at 09:20 AM. Reason: Error...
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old May 1st, 08, 09:23 AM
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Thumbs up Re: CS130 Wiring Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by onovakind67 View Post
What's the difference in alternator operation between connecting the sense wire to 12V or leaving it disconnected?
The "S" is the remote sensing wire. It looks at the voltage signal at the actual power distribution point if a bus type system is used.
It is a great feature of these alt.s when used in remotely mounted battery installations, such as boats. But - it is also very usefull in automotive applications for rear mounted batteries or revised wiring systems using a single power tap routing system.
All GM vehicles after the early 70's used a single remote power tap lug mounted around the firewall area to distribute power to the vehicle and accessories.

If you wire one of these alt.s to a 1st gen. with stock wiring using the original voltage reg. as the distribution point, then you want to make sure the "S" terminal is getting a signal from the systems regulator connection, or from another remote battery supplied source, to be sure the alt. is actually 'seeing' the system distribution voltages so it can adjust itself to the need.
Better yet - you should rewire a 1st gen to use a power tap system so you are sure systems and accessories get the correct voltages instead of relying on the cruddy connection system at the regulator and junctions in the looms ...

As far as the 12vdc sourcing to the alt. They do rely on a full system voltage (12~14.5vdc) - unlike thingys like older distributors that need a lower continuous operating voltage.
Accourding to some info in a message I got from Mark [edited] (at 'Mad Electrical') - "... (the) terminal is wired to an ignition switched ON/OFF source, and this circuit can also be used to operate a dash mounted warning light (The warning light is an option, not a requirement)."
This applies to all modern GM alternators - the 10~12Si's and the CS series ...
So if something else is true, maybe your should run it by another source and ignore Mike's information.

BTW - I've been running SI/CS alternators on my boats and have my 77 GM 4X4 wired this way (no idiot light in the truck - just factory gauges) for 7~10 years now and never had a failure to date.

(edit) Sorry, Paul typed faster than me

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Last edited by Vintage 68; May 1st, 08 at 09:52 AM. Reason: paul posted first...
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old May 1st, 08, 09:26 AM
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Re: CS130 Wiring Question

The "S" wire is for remote sensing and if you are going to connect it to the battery or charging lug at the back of the alternator....don't bother even hooking it up as that wire is NOT required and it does not help to use it to sense voltage at the lug or battery.

I guess I don't understand how the alternator senses that the sense wire is connected or disconnected. I've worked on a lot of generator systems, and if you disconnect the sensing reference, the voltage goes way up. Is there some internal connection in the alternator?
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old May 1st, 08, 09:44 AM
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Re: CS130 Wiring Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage 68 View Post
Accourding to some info in a message I got from Mike (at 'Mad Electrical') - "... (the) terminal is wired to an ignition switched ON/OFF source, and this circuit can also be used to operate a dash mounted warning light (The warning light is an option, not a requirement)."
Do you mean Mark at Mad Electrical? That doesn't match what I've read/heard from him and he even supplies a resistor in his CS130 kit????


Quotes from:

http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/cs-130.shtml

Quote:
Installation of the RESISTOR, which will be needed for installations without a Warning Light at the Dash (gauge only).
Quote:
A RESISTOR is included, which is calibrated to protect voltage regulator electronics (the regulator is within in the alternator).



Quote:
Originally Posted by onovakind67 View Post
I guess I don't understand how the alternator senses that the sense wire is connected or disconnected. I've worked on a lot of generator systems, and if you disconnect the sensing reference, the voltage goes way up. Is there some internal connection in the alternator?
That kind of exceeds my knowledge. I can only speculate and say that if the alternator sees voltage on the "S" wire it regulates to that, if not it regulates to the charging wire.

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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old May 1st, 08, 09:46 AM
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Re: CS130 Wiring Question

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Originally Posted by onovakind67 View Post
The "S" wire is for remote sensing ...

... and if you disconnect the sensing reference, the voltage goes way up. Is there some internal connection in the alternator?
The short answer is 'yes' - there is an "Auto-sensing" feature built into GM's original regulators - that allows it to 'see' the output voltage at the main output lug and adjust to that ...

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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old May 1st, 08, 09:51 AM
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Red face Re: CS130 Wiring Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulm View Post
Do you mean Mark at Mad Electrical?


Quote from:

http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/cs-130.shtml

...
yes, 'Mark' don't know what I was thinking ...
I'll go edit that ...



And I also went to the site to find what info he posts now
"With the “THREE-WIRE” alternator model built for cars and trucks, one of the voltage regulator terminals is wired to an ignition switched OFF/ON source. And the OFF/ON circuit may also be used to operate a warning light at the dash. (The THREE-WIRE type can be wired with or without a warning light at the dash. The warning light is an option–not a requirement.)"

So if he has a newer recommendation, it may be for certain installations or ???
Interesting to see he does have a kit for gauges and includes the resistor.
Sure wouldn't be a bad idea to use a resistor to limit inrush anyway, probably prevent voltage spikes - but I haven't in any of mine and haven't ever lost a regulator in many years - just a few set's of worn-out brushes and one bad stator ...

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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old May 1st, 08, 09:55 AM
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Re: CS130 Wiring Question

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Originally Posted by Vintage 68 View Post
The short answer is 'yes' - there is an "Auto-sensing" feature built into GM's original regulators - that allows it to 'see' the output voltage at the main output lug and adjust to that ...
Do these alternators also have an external sense input? What separates the internal auto-sense from the external sense line?
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