Moving Battery to trunk - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 09, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Trevor
 
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Moving Battery to trunk

Any drawbacks to using #1 AWG welding cable?. I am also planing on a 250amp fuse for short cct protection and running two wires the full length one for positive and one for negative. Any other suggestions?
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 09, 12:49 PM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

Sounds like a plan. I would highly recommend the use of a sealed battery box.....similar to a marine application unless you use a sealed battery like an Optima. I recently had a friend install a trunk mounted battery with a standard battery. 6 months later, there was lots of corrosion and rust coming thru the quarter panel and out thru the paint. We think it had something to do with the battery that was exposing fumes and chemicals to the metal. It would be a safe thing to do regardless.

Also, #1 gauge is plenty. I have the same stuff on mine and it starts a 10.5 to 1 compression LS1 motor over pretty darn easy from the trunk.

Good luck man, your gonna like the space savings and the weight transfer.

Joe

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 09, 04:10 PM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

Sounds like a plan. A lot of guys run their ground through the body and frame. I particularly like the use of a good ground wire instead. When a starter is pulling 100Amps out of the battery, even 0.01 ohms of resistance can break you down. A wire has two connections, whereas the body / frame has multiple bolt-ups and weld junctions to complicate matters.

Dave
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 09, 04:43 PM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

As an added suggestion, I recommend using a 150 or 200 amp (depending on application) breaker, like used on top end custom stereo installs. Simply as a security/safety measure in the event that the wire were to ever ground. You could/should also install a master disconnect if you do not use a breaker.

Wire fires are nasty!!!!

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 09, 04:57 PM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

Here is a pic of how/where my breaker is mounted.


Frost Green '68 Coupe (yes they made Camaros that year); Dart Alum headed, dynamically balanced 327; Mighty Demon 750; 4sp; Cal-Tracs Rear Susp; ProCar Rally 1000's seats; 15" Rallys. (pretty plain-jane)
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 09, 05:05 PM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

Quote:
Originally Posted by C-ROB View Post
As an added suggestion, I recommend using a 150 or 200 amp (depending on application) breaker, like used on top end custom stereo installs. Simply as a security/safety measure in the event that the wire were to ever ground. You could/should also install a master disconnect if you do not use a breaker.

Wire fires are nasty!!!!
Would that work? Usually car batteries are rated at 600-800 CCA, and sounds like to me you would trip that breaker, especially on a V8 of any decent compression ratio or in cold weather. 300+ amps is pretty typical I think for a cranking draw for a performance motor.

Ed

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 09, 06:00 PM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

Theres no reason to use 250amps... I have 2 spal fans, turn on the lights, thrun on the heat, turn on the radio, and turn on and crank a 400 wat amp and I'm only pulling 61 amps! If you use that 250amp breaker I't won't do much except for using it as a on off switch. Here's what I'm using. 80 amp fuses.
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1968 Camaro Convertible ,350 TWIN TURBO , PTC 3000 stall, Hotchkis TVS kit / Subframe connectors, Caltracs, 9" rear, Street Star wheels (P275/40ZR17 / P235/45/17) , Electric cutouts. [B] .....FOR SALE.....
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 09, 06:23 PM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnm99 View Post
Theres no reason to use 250amps... I have 2 spal fans, turn on the lights, thrun on the heat, turn on the radio, and turn on and crank a 400 wat amp and I'm only pulling 61 amps! If you use that 250amp breaker I't won't do much except for using it as a on off switch. Here's what I'm using. 80 amp fuses.

250 amps???? Not sure where that came from? I did not say that it required the 150-200 amp breaker (could get away with a smaller breaker), but in the event that 1/0 wire grounds, IT WILL trip a 150-200 amp breaker., which would keep the wire from burning through.

Frost Green '68 Coupe (yes they made Camaros that year); Dart Alum headed, dynamically balanced 327; Mighty Demon 750; 4sp; Cal-Tracs Rear Susp; ProCar Rally 1000's seats; 15" Rallys. (pretty plain-jane)
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 09, 06:26 PM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

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Originally Posted by BigBlock1969RS View Post
Would that work? Usually car batteries are rated at 600-800 CCA, and sounds like to me you would trip that breaker, especially on a V8 of any decent compression ratio or in cold weather. 300+ amps is pretty typical I think for a cranking draw for a performance motor.

It works fine, cranking an 11.5:1 engine. Have used breakers identical to this one on my last four cars, all were above 11.0:1 compression except one of them.

Frost Green '68 Coupe (yes they made Camaros that year); Dart Alum headed, dynamically balanced 327; Mighty Demon 750; 4sp; Cal-Tracs Rear Susp; ProCar Rally 1000's seats; 15" Rallys. (pretty plain-jane)
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 09, 10:00 PM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

1/0 power and ground from the battery will be fine.

My added suggestions:

1. Add ground wire(s) from the battery negative post to the body of the car to tie the body to the electrical system. If you just run a 1/0 wire from the negative post of the battery to the engine without any added grounds to tie to the body of the car you will be relying on what is already there and those spots are poor. You could get a ground from the engine to the body through the shifter linkage but this is a poor electrical path. You could also get one through the tranny, down the driveshaft, through the rear end, through the emergency brake cables then to the emergency brake mechanism under the dash but this too is a poor electrical path.

2. Add the inline ANL fuse as close as you can to the battery positive post. If you have the battery in a steel or aluminum box and then have the fuse outside, anywhere between the positive battery post and the input of the fuse is unprotected. I built a custom battery box for two cars and incorporated the fuse into the inside of the battery box.

http://rides.webshots.com/album/540677712ZGCuGO

3. I would also solder the ring terminals to the 1/0 wire and any other terminals on your wire ends.

4. Build or buy a sealed battery box even if using these so called optima sealed batteries. When buying or building one, add a vent tube onto it and have one end inside the battery box and the other end going to the outside of the car.

5. If it is a standard battery (not a spiral cell type of battery) position the battery going left to right in the car and not front to back. The reason for this is it's possible through severe tire shake and accelleration that the plates could shift front to back and short out causing a battery problem if the plates are going from left to right and in front of each other (think of domino's falling when stacked front to rear in the car and when accelerating they fall into each other). Most batteries today probably won't have this problem BUT you never know.

6. Any power wire, fused or not, needs to go through a good grommet when it passes through any metal panel. If you do not get ones that are water tight, get ones that fit snugly on the wires insulation and then add some silicone around the gap to fill it and seal it up.

Jim

1974 Spirit Of America Nova (being restored), 1973 Nova Custom, 1968 Chevy II (Garage Find 2012)

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 09, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

Thanks for all the tips, I am looking into a main fuse right off the positive, I have a 454 with 9.75-1 compression, what size fuse will allow this to start without blowing?
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 09, 07:38 AM
 
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

I recommend not moving the battery to the rear of the car. Longer distance for the electric flow, reduce's amps and volts. But since you are, I recommend using a good buse and in line fuse or breaker. I recommend in line fuse, since breakers do sometimes fail and melt together, then you have a fire. Also, I know optima battery's are expsensive..... But use a yellow top since you are running it in the rear of the car, or get a bigger amp alternator. Race car's run battery's in the rear, but the are one time use and then shut down to just run of alternator. Hope this info is useful.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 09, 08:41 PM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta69SS View Post
Thanks for all the tips, I am looking into a main fuse right off the positive, I have a 454 with 9.75-1 compression, what size fuse will allow this to start without blowing?
I've used 300A ones on about 5 cars or so and have had two of these cars blow the fuse.

One was due to the person being cheap and not having a good ground setup along with a stock starter working on a high compression motor. Even he could tell how much better the engine cranked over with some jumper cables jury rigged onto the car so I could show him how much better the car would crank over with this basic test. On this one he upgraded his ground paths, added a high torque starter, replaced the fuse and has not blown one since.

The other one I had blow a fuse was on a high torque starter on a high compression 632 cu.in. motor. On this one the engine tuner guy was cranking/bumping it over and over and over again checking the valve lash WAY to many times and from what I could tell they drained the battery down and also overheated the starter motor. On this one they kept a battery charger on it while setting the valves and also learned to do it quicker and on this one has not had a blown fuse since.

On another car I did (Henry J) this one has never blown and on this setup it is a blown big block and a high torque starter. I also have a 300A on my 73 Nova with a low compression small block and a stock starter. This one too has never blown on me.

I've never tried to find out what each particular setup takes but I do not want to put anything larger than a 300A fuse on a 1/0 wire. The fuse is there to protect the wire.


Another thing too thinking about setting up a system with an ANL fuse is to carry a spare just in case and also leave one of the cables going to the fuse holder a little long to reach over to the other post and bypass the fuse. I use the ANL fuse holders that have threaded studs on them and if in the heat of a race and there are no replacement fuses readily available I can bypass the fuse by unbolting the one power wires lug off of the one stud and then put it together with the other power wire and bolt it back together tight. I would only do that if I'm sure there is no short past the fuse itself otherwise the wires insulation would melt off.

If you are worried about voltage drop, get an alternator and regulator system that has an adjustable regulator. I have an old Lestek alternator on my 73 Nova and it came with a solid state adjustable regulator. Using my Dakota Digital volt gauge indash I can dial in and have 14.4 volts right across the battery terminals.

Jim

1974 Spirit Of America Nova (being restored), 1973 Nova Custom, 1968 Chevy II (Garage Find 2012)

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 14th, 09, 07:25 AM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

If you haven't seen these, check them out:

Mad Electrical's Startem up kit:
http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml

Trunk mount Battery helper kit:
http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/tm-1.shtml

Ed

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old Jan 14th, 09, 12:22 PM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk

I ran 1.0 to the trunk for the starter. Another 4GA running from the alt to the battery (charge) The alt is 130A. Another 4GA from the batt to a junction block that is mounted on the drivers side fender. It's around 15ft long. I also have an external regulator, non adjustible. I get 14.4V at the junction block on the fender. There is a .73 drop in voltage doing the calculations, but the alt/regulator makes it up. The senseing wire for the alt is connected to the junction block. The alt will put out whatever it needs to get the 14.4 at the block.

I'm using one of these also. http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml

1968 Camaro Convertible ,350 TWIN TURBO , PTC 3000 stall, Hotchkis TVS kit / Subframe connectors, Caltracs, 9" rear, Street Star wheels (P275/40ZR17 / P235/45/17) , Electric cutouts. [B] .....FOR SALE.....
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