electric fan trouble - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 09, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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sako
 
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electric fan trouble

I hooked up my new 16" electric fan from summit and the painless harness to my 69. I found a loose wire by the master cylinder that was connected to the ignition but was not hooked up to anything. When i touched the ignition wire from the relay to that wire(one by the m/c) the fan would go on. Ok, so i decided to hook it up there. After i ran my wire and prepaired it to hook up and when i attached it there was nothing, the fan would not spin.
Im no electrician, but my guess is i might have blown a fuse somewhere.
My question is where to start to troubleshoot this problem?

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 09, 03:47 PM
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Kevin
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

I would start at the fuse box. It sounds like you may have had 12volts, but not enough current capacity to run the fan.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 09, 04:40 PM
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Ron
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

There should be instructions with that Fan Installation with a wiring Diagram telling you the Amperage required to run the Fan. Generally, you will require a 40 amp Fuse. Although it may not draw 40 amps while running it does give the electrical system quit a jolt when it first starts and can draw 35+ amps initially. Also you should be running a relay with a DIODE across the Primary Relay Terminals. A Diode is required to stop EMF spikes that can jolt your electrical system to as high as 600 volts in a milli-sec. This happens when the fan shuts down and the collapsing field of the relay coil will induce an EMF feedback. If you are running a CD Module or any transistorized circuits in your system this will burn the transistors out.

A variable bio-strip thermostat switch is handy for controlling the primary low voltage circuit to the Fan Relay instructing the FAN motor to turn on or off. The low voltage primary Relay Circuit is managed by the RUN position of your Key. The Hi-Voltage side with the in line 40 AMP fuse flows across the Relay contacts to the fan motor can be wired from the horn terminal accessory bar but if the current is enough to heat the accessory line from the battery the instructions usually suggest that you source the fan motor directly off the + terminal of the Battery; but this will cause the dash Amp Gauge (actually a milli-volt meter) to read incorrectly so I would run a heavier accessory wire from the battery to the terminal on the horn relay.

The Dash Amp or Mill-Volt gauge reads the voltage drop between the horn Relay and the + terminal of the Battery along a resistance wire running parallel to the Accessory wire between the horn Relay and the + Terminal of the Battery, so you can see that any accessory sourced from the + terminal of the battery will screw up the gauge readings. This would include accessories like; Electric Fans, CD Modules, Audio Amplifiers and accessory Head Lights ... etc.

Hope this helps ;o)

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Last edited by Z15CAM; Mar 23rd, 09 at 05:14 PM.
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 09, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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sako
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

wow, thanks for all the info.
Today i picked up a circuit tester to go through the system and try to find out where the problem is.
The ignition wire that i found under the hood is good and only goes on when i turn the key on.
The fan is also good because i tested it by connecting it to the battery with a 20 v fuse line so i will not burn out the fan.
The line from the battery goes to a circuit braker with another line grounding it.
I also have the relay hooked up and i think the problem is at the relay because
i checked it and the line from the battery to the relay is working but its not distributing the electricity to the other ends. one goes to the sensor, one to the battery, one to the circuit braker and ignition.
There is a fuse that connects to the relay base, do you think that burned out?
****, i have to buy another one. That kit cost me like $65.
Does anyone know the item # for just the fuse that connects to this relay
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku
I cant seem to find it.
Thanks guys.

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 09, 09:29 PM
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Todd
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

I didn't see anything about a ground.
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 09, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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sako
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 View Post
I didn't see anything about a ground.
the fan has a ground and the circuit breaker has a ground

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 09, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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sako
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

this is the way its hooked up


1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 09, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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sako
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by sako View Post
the fan has a ground and the circuit breaker has a ground

I mean the fan and the sensor, my bad.

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 09, 10:02 PM
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Ron
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

OK that's looks like an Electric Thermostat Switch that probably grounds the primary low voltage Circuit of the relay when temperature is reached and sourced by the key in run position. That circuit would be fed from the fuse panel. Looks like you have a manual over ride switch there as well.

I would imagine that HELLA Relay would have to be around a 40 Amper with a built in DIODE circuit (pull the relay a see if the circuit diagram indicates a DIODE if not you will have to wire one across the primary + and - terminals of the relay).

Looks like the Hi-Voltage fused Fan Motor circuit must be behind the mounting Bracket and contains a fuse? I would power that circuit from the horn relay (but check that the wire from the battery to the Horn relay does not get warm when the fan is running - if it does replace it with a larger gauge wire). From the Relay fuse panel you feed the + terminal of the fan motor and run a ground wire from the - terminal of the fan motor to ground.

To check the fuse, it should be visually obvious that the link is broken. If it's in cased and you can't see the link either test it with an ohm meter or a 12 volt light bulb. Since I can't see behind the Relay Mounting Bracket which I assume has a fuse I have no Idea what kind of fuse it is ;o)

Well there you go the wiring diagram corresponds to my description of the circuit - seems simple enough.

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 09, 10:11 PM
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Ron
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

Quote:
That circuit would be fed from the fuse panel.
Look at your fuse panel under the dash there will be 3 or 4 terminals there running vertically and located in the centre of the panel. Some are constant voltage, some accessory and some Ignition RUN Position - determine and use an Ignition RUN terminal to power what is described as the "IGN or FAN Switch" as per your diagram.

If you use the an Ignition RUN Position terminal you will not require that manual switch.

You can wire that Switch wired in Parallel with the sensor to manually over ride if you want to.

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Last edited by Z15CAM; Mar 23rd, 09 at 10:22 PM.
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 09, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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sako
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

How can i find out if this is burned out. How to test it?



1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 09, 08:58 AM
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Steiner
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

Maybe I missed something, but have you started the car and run it yet? By your wiring diagram, you will not have a ground for your relay coil until the car is up to temp, probaby 180 degrees if it's like most switches. Turn the ignition on, check for 12V at your relay from the ignition, and jumper across your temperature sensor with the ignition on to test the circuit without heating the car up first.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 09, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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sako
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steiner View Post
Maybe I missed something, but have you started the car and run it yet? By your wiring diagram, you will not have a ground for your relay coil until the car is up to temp, probaby 180 degrees if it's like most switches. Turn the ignition on, check for 12V at your relay from the ignition, and jumper across your temperature sensor with the ignition on to test the circuit without heating the car up first.
I did start the car and got the temp to the level where the fan should go on, but i did not have the ignition wire connected at the time. Would the fan go off or not without it? Now i have the ign wire connected so when i get home tonight i will try it again with everything connected.
I figured it would not make a difference since the sensor sends out the signal for the fan to go on.
Again im no expert. Thank you guys again for the time and knowledge.
I will let you know how things go.
Peace.

1969 SS camaro,emerald green with white hockey stripe.383 stroker with weiand supercharger.12 bolt 373 gears. 4 speed.

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 09, 10:53 AM
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Ron
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

I also do not see a DIODE across the 85 and 86 Terminals of the Relay's wiring schematic. To me would indicate that there is none. I would go to Radio Shack or (The Source Stores) and solder one across them terminals. You do NOT want to burn out your MSD or Mallory CD Ignition Units.

You have 2 87 terminals on that Relay - One can be used for the Thermo Switch and the other with a Manual Over-Ride Switch.

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 09, 11:43 AM
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Todd
 
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Re: electric fan trouble

Ground the sending unit wire, if the fan comes on then it's wired correctly. If it does not then you have a relay, wiring, or coolant temp sensor problem.
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